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DICE .7 Released
#316551 - 10/30/13 03:08 AM
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4 new games
Quadrapong
Shark Jaws
Crash'n'Score
Jet Fighter
http://adamulation.blogspot.com/
I'm just glad I was able to beat my good friend Gregf to the punch. 
Edited by Antny (10/30/13 03:21 AM)
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: Antny]
#316557 - 10/30/13 01:49 PM
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cool. Emu Loader games database updated with new DICE games for the next release 
no need anymore, get official frontend release for the updated file.
Edited by CiroConsentino (11/11/13 12:14 PM)
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: [email protected]
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Stiletto |
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Awesome! *nt*
[Re: Antny]
#316559 - 10/30/13 05:20 PM
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> 4 new games
>
> Quadrapong
> Shark Jaws
> Crash'n'Score
> Jet Fighter
>
> http://adamulation.blogspot.com/
>
> I'm just glad I was able to beat my good friend Gregf to the punch.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: DICE .7 Released *edit*
[Re: Antny]
#316561 - 10/30/13 07:13 PM
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| mw |
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MAME Fan
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> cool. Emu Loader games database updated with new DICE games for the next release
> just replace existing "DICE_XML.dat" with the one attached here and re-create DICE
> games list in Emu Loader.
Thanks for providing the .dat file!
A couple of the sets surfaced with different sizes listed than those in your dat (I think they were found in NONMAME v142 ROMs).
Attached is your dat with those sizes revised.
Edit: By the way, still not sure what the actual sizes of the sharkjaws ROMs are. Found the schematics/manual of crashnscore & jetfighter, but due to the way that sharkjaws was marketed, that one doesn't seem to be listed with the other Atari manuals.
Sharkjaws was marketed under a different company name (Horror Games) to protect Atari, in case they got sued for taking advantage of the JAWS movie IP without licensing it. See this Wikipedia article: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j....55819444,d.cGE
Edit2: Found a manual for sharkjaws, but still haven't been able to figure the exact rom sizes yet.
Edited by mw (11/01/13 08:03 PM)
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316690 - 11/01/13 08:29 PM
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>Edit2: Found a manual for sharkjaws, but still haven't been able to figure the exact rom
>sizes yet.
Somewhere witihin the manual of either, the parts list section, pcb layout, or logic schematics should be what type of prom is used and maybe the data size can be determined from there. I am guessing the Shark prom might have originated from a repair shop years earlier, but not sure if they documented what the prom was at the time.
http://discrete.mameworld.info/Atari/Atari2.htm#sharkjaws
http://discrete.mameworld.info/Atari/Jaws/SharkJaws.pdf
Sometime within next few months, some initial work might begin with Ramtek Trivia such as video portion. I have schematics (ledger size) that need to be photocopied and mailed to Adam and Rich respectively. They're busy with other games at this time.
--
Ramtek Trivia
http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=2605
--
Looking at logic schematics of Ramtek Trivia, the prom is no longer an Intersil 5610 prom (used with games Clean Sweep, Ramtek Baseball/Midway Ball Park, Ramtek Wipe Out/Midway Leader), but a different prom altogether.
One Trivia pcb is on hand so prom can be eventually dumped.
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316693 - 11/01/13 09:08 PM
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help :(
[Re: gregf]
#316696 - 11/01/13 09:43 PM
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I don't know what happened but some of the games with DICE don't run at all. I bring up the UI and Space Race, Stunt Cycle and I believe another one starts. All the others do nothing when I hit the start button. I believe it's something to do with Windows but I'm not a 100% sure. (Windows 7 64 bit).
What is also weird is TV basketball worked yesterday but not today.
I posted it on the DICE comments section but I thought I might get more help here.
Thanks
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| mw |
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316725 - 11/02/13 09:07 AM
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The manual indicated that the two roms in sharkjaws are for the images of the diver, the shark and the little fish.
I figured out how to map the pixels and made a fake set of roms that look poorly, but similar to the original images.
You can load these into DICE, it will inform you that the checksums are incorrect, but the game will work.
If anyone has a better set of images for the sprites, please post them here, and I can generate another fake rom that looks better.
Both the diver and shark are 24 pixels wide by 16 pixels high and each has two frames of animation. The aspect of the shark is stretched out, it's pixels being twice as wide as the diver. So the internal representation of the shark is 24 pixels wide, and it appears 48 pixels wide.
The little fish is 8w by 16h and is capable of two frames, but I think the original game may have had only one frame for it, and didn't use the full height of 16. The aspect of the little fish is the same as the diver.
Edited by Tafoid (11/02/13 06:13 PM)
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| mw |
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316726 - 11/02/13 09:22 AM
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Here is an ascii representation of the sprites. The part after the "---" is the second frame.
The diver: (note: the first 8 columns are blank and not used)
Code:
. X
. XXXX XXXXXXXXXX X X
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X X
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
. XXX XXXXXXXXXXX
. X X
. X X X X
. X X XXXXX X
. X X X
. X
. X
. X
. X
. X X
.
.
---
.
. XXXX XXXXXXXXXX
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX X
. XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
. X X
. X X
. XX X X
. X X XX
. X XXX
. XX X
. XX
. XX
. X
.
.
The little fish and shark: (the little fish is the first 8 columns)
Code:
. XX
. XXXX
. XXXXX X
. XXXXXXXX X
. XX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
. X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
. XX XX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXX XX XXX XX XXXXXXXXX
. XXX X X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
. XXX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
. XXXXXXXXXX X
.
.
---
. XX
. XXXX
. XXXXX X
. XXXXXXXX X
. XX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
. X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
. XX XX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
.XXXXX XX XXX XXXX XXXXXXXXX
. XXX X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
. XXX X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
. XXXXXXXXXX X
.
.
P.S. the periods are not part of the image, just a means to keep the forum software from not displaying the blank lines.
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Re: help :(
[Re: Antny]
#316746 - 11/02/13 03:22 PM
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I'm having the same problem. No games are starting on either version 32 or 64 bit. I'M using windows 7
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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| Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316757 - 11/02/13 06:10 PM
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> Here is an ascii representation of the sprites. The part after the "---" is the
> second frame.
>
> The diver: (note: the first 8 columns are blank and not used)
>
> . X
> . XXXX XXXXXXXXXX X X
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X X
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
> . XXX XXXXXXXXXXX
> . X X
> . X X X X
> . X X XXXXX X
> . X X X
> . X
> . X
> . X
> . X
> . X X
> .
> .
> ---
> .
> . XXXX XXXXXXXXXX
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX X
> . XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
> . X X
> . X X
> . XX X X
> . X X XX
> . X XXX
> . XX X
> . XX
> . XX
> . X
> .
> .
>
> The little fish and shark: (the little fish is the first 8 columns)
>
>
> . XX
> . XXXX
> . XXXXX X
> . XXXXXXXX X
> . XX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
> . X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
> . XX XX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXX XX XXX XX XXXXXXXXX
> . XXX X X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
> . XXX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
> . XXXXXXXXXX X
> .
> .
> ---
> . XX
> . XXXX
> . XXXXX X
> . XXXXXXXX X
> . XX X XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
> . X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
> . XX XX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> .XXXXX XX XXX XXXX XXXXXXXXX
> . XXX X X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
> . XXX X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
> . XXXXXXXXXXXXXX X
> . XXXXXXXXXX X
> .
> .
>
> P.S. the periods are not part of the image, just a means to keep the forum software
> from not displaying the blank lines.
I don't like the idea of fake roms especially when the actual certified real roms are available and have been dumped. Doing so potentially confuses the issue later - when someone 10 years later comes to research this and sees two sets, they may accept your fake ones as a "real" alternate version or something.
Make them all your want for your own use, but we cannot encourage distribution here.
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| mw |
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MAME Fan
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: Tafoid]
#316759 - 11/02/13 06:45 PM
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> I don't like the idea of fake roms especially when the actual certified real roms are
> available and have been dumped. Doing so potentially confuses the issue later - when
> someone 10 years later comes to research this and sees two sets, they may accept your
> fake ones as a "real" alternate version or something.
>
> Make them all your want for your own use, but we cannot encourage distribution here.
Understood.
I haven't been able to find the originals anywhere. Just passing time until they turn up.
It became rather tiresome chasing the little blue block with my medium blue block, while avoiding the big blue block. So I cobbled-up a makeshift set of images.
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| mw |
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> I'm having the same problem. No games are starting on either version 32 or 64 bit.
> I'M using windows 7
There's been some advice posted over on the DICE blog:
http://adamulation.blogspot.com/2013/10/dice-07-released.html?showComment=1383406155901
Quote:
dice.emulator November 2, 2013 at 8:29 AM
Hmm I haven't seen this issue before, so I'm not really sure what the problem is! How do you have the controls for start / insert coin configured? You can try deleting all the DICE config files (generally in C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\dice) to see if that helps. Breakout fyi also requires the serve button to be hit in order to serve the ball after the game is started.
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Re: help :(
[Re: mw]
#316820 - 11/03/13 01:47 PM
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That worked. Thanks.
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: mw]
#316841 - 11/03/13 10:16 PM
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> It became rather tiresome chasing the little blue block with my medium blue block,
> while avoiding the big blue block.
DEGENATRON!
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: Tafoid]
#316846 - 11/04/13 02:06 AM
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> I don't like the idea of fake roms especially when the actual certified real roms are
> available and have been dumped. Doing so potentially confuses the issue later - when
> someone 10 years later comes to research this and sees two sets, they may accept your
> fake ones as a "real" alternate version or something.
>
> Make them all your want for your own use, but we cannot encourage distribution here.
I dunno - clean room ROMs give a legal alternative for people who want to see gameplay but don't want to violate copyright or search for dodgy ROM sites. As long as they're clearly marked as clean room ROMs (not dumps) there shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Question...
[Re: Matty_]
#316853 - 11/04/13 04:17 AM
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What is so hard about getting a set of the dumps?
Just curious...
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Pessimist: Oh, this can't get any worse!
Optimist: Yes, it can!
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Re: Question...
[Re: Bad A Billy]
#316856 - 11/04/13 05:06 AM
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> What is so hard about getting a set of the dumps?
> Just curious...
Many of the boards for these TTL games are quite rare. And since they're from the 1970's, they're also quite old. Sometimes, a board is available, but the ROMs have gone bad. Other times, only schematics are available. Thus, you can have games with enough information available to emulate them, but no way to dump the graphics ROMs. In practice, I think this is generally the issue, not any concerns over copyright.
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I gotcha. Thanks.
Just figured the discrete guys had a set to work from first. That's definitely a unique way to go about working on something. I don't think I could spend that much time doing something like that only theoretically. That sounds funny, know what I'm getting at?
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Re: Question...
[Re: Bad A Billy]
#316874 - 11/04/13 09:07 AM
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> I gotcha. Thanks.
>
> Just figured the discrete guys had a set to work from first. That's definitely a
> unique way to go about working on something. I don't think I could spend that much
> time doing something like that only theoretically. That sounds funny, know what I'm
> getting at?
It's discrete logic. The ROMs don't contain any of the game logic. You absolutely have to work it out from the schematics. Using fake ROMs only changes the sprite shapes.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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with XP and using 32 bit version
[Re: Antny]
#316875 - 11/04/13 09:55 AM
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No problems with DICE version .07
>weird is TV basketball worked yesterday but not today.
The odd thing when running Midway TV Basketball first few times with DICE on my computer is some vertical lines would be visible on both right side of the score / numbers region and over to the far right side of the right side basket. After running TV Basketball a few more times, the lines would no longer be visible making the game appear as it should just like if it were beibng played with actual pcb hooked up to a b/w tv monitor.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Question...
[Re: Bad A Billy]
#316878 - 11/04/13 10:34 AM
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>Just figured the discrete guys had a set to work from first.
For Atari Shark rom set, I am certain they did have roms to work with. As mentioned in other post, some of the 1970s era pcbs such as a couple of the Atari boards have an odd setup in which the roms have to be handled carefully when using adapter to read the data from the roms. Andy W. had an informative explanation about some of the 1970s Atari boards when reading roms, but I misplaced that.
The Kee Games Tank rom is one of those custom roms which had to be indentified correctly beforehand before dumping data from the rom. I believe a rom of Kee Games Tank might have come from a repair shop that does repair pcbs, but not certain.
>That's definitely a unique way to go about working on something. I don't think I could
>spend that much time doing something like that only theoretically.
The only time that I recall logic schematics (for discrete audio only) were hand drawn from scratch was for audio for Spiders about 6 or 7 years ago iirc.
The part that would be preferable of not having to do is trace logic circuits of an entire pcb just to draw logic schematics from scratch in case logic schematics are hard to track down these days for some of the games. Several Meadows non-cpu videogames have had the associated roms dumped, but finding logic schematics for Meadows games is next to impossible. I believe they were printed separately from the green covered service manuals. I have never seen Meadows logic schematics before. The only one I do have is for Meadows Flim Flam cocktail table model, but it is a photocopy of a poor quality photocopy.
One of the former MAMEdev members preferred not to hand draw logic schematics for Ramtek Trivia and I would agree with that opinion after finally getting Trivia schematics 6 pages total (11 x 17 ledger size). Ramtek Trivia might look simple, but it involves a fair amount of work since it also makes use of a tape player system to handle 8 track data tapes when loading data (audio format) that a chip proceeds to convert audio data from tape to ascii text output of the quiz questions that appear as readable images on the monitor. An ingenious method imo since game developers/engineers had to find work arounds since chips were either expensive or technology was limited back in mid 1970s and companies wanted to keep manufacturing costs to a minimum if possible.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: DICE .7 Released
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#316879 - 11/04/13 11:34 AM
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Re: Question...
[Re: gregf]
#316884 - 11/04/13 01:12 PM
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> For Atari Shark rom set, I am certain they did have roms to work with.
They did & the roms are out there. However the original file might not have been called sharkjaws.zip
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Re: Question...
[Re: Matty_]
#316895 - 11/04/13 04:51 PM
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I see. Didn't think of it like like. Kind of like writing a book. You can write the book and it makes sense but, add the pictures afterward and there you go. Informative AND entertaining...
Thanks guys.
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Optimist: Yes, it can!
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Question...
[Re: Bad A Billy]
#316903 - 11/04/13 09:09 PM
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>You can write the book and it makes sense but, add the pictures afterward and there you go.
With some non-cpu video games, it is possible to get away with that, but there are others in which the roms or proms might control game play data [ball movement etc.] rather than graphics data. It depends on the functions that the chip/rom is used for.
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Re: Question...
[Re: ]
#316910 - 11/04/13 10:29 PM
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Does anyone know what the name of the file might be?
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Question...
[Re: Antny]
#316911 - 11/04/13 11:27 PM
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>Does anyone know what the name of the file might be?
DICE source code currently has it as sharkjaws....(assume "sharkjaws.zip").
--
static RomDesc d1a_desc("sharkjaws", "004182.1da", 0x05242912); //shark-fish
static RomDesc d1b_desc("sharkjaws", "004183.1db", 0xB161B889); //diver
--
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Re: Question...
[Re: gregf]
#316912 - 11/05/13 12:00 AM
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Ah, I didn't realize it had been dumped already. I know on some old boards the ROMs have been bad. I think that was a problem with Bazooka. I'm sure gregf would know more about that one.
With so few TTL games emulated now, I'm not surprised they're focusing on the ones with good schematics available. But at some point, they'll have to start creating schematics from PCBs if they want to keep adding games. Of course the PCBs are pretty rare too. I don't know how many games we can reasonably except to get emulated, but hopefully there will eventually be a substantial number.
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| gregf |
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>I didn't realize it had been dumped already.
Same here. I didn't know that Atari game was already dumped.
>I know on some old boards the ROMs have been bad. I think that was a problem with
>Bazooka. I'm sure gregf would know more about that one.
I am not sure with PSE Bazooka. The one that I am aware of that might be good is Allied Leisure Street Burners because another owner confirmed their data from roms from their own Street Burners board set matches Street Burners roms that were dumped by siftware earlier. Both Adam and Rich have schematics of Allied Leisure's Street Burners, but being a multiple board game, it might be a while before Street Burners is emulated.
>With so few TTL games emulated now, I'm not surprised they're focusing on the ones with
>good schematics available.
I figure almost all the Atari games have best chance and second might be Midway and maybe Exidy provided that roms/proms are still readable from some of the hard-to-find Exidy pcbs.
>But at some point, they'll have to start creating schematics from PCBs if they want to
>keep adding games.
That might be the scenario for many of the Meadows games, Chicago Coin games, Nutting games and Taito games.
>Of course the PCBs are pretty rare too. I don't know how many games we can reasonably
>except to get emulated, but hopefully there will eventually be a substantial number.
With what is accounted for at this time, I am guessing maybe around 30 games which is better than my expectations in 2002 or 2003 when I would have guessed 10 games back then since lots of stuff was missing/not yet preserved.
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>Guess who gets stuck with having to do future Ramtek Clean Sweep bezel artwork support in case a bezel is found and scanned later. ;-) *kidding*
This one blew by me. LOL, sure thing my friend. If u find a scan or even a HQ photo I would be glad to do that one. Actually, it would probably be the easist one I would ever do. I would love to do the overlay for the other ones also.
The clouds in both versions of Jet Fighter look the same. The German version looks like it has an added inner bezel. The front of the German flyer would be easy to trace.
Traced...........
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
Edited by Antny (11/05/13 05:13 AM)
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Re: Question...
[Re: gregf]
#316929 - 11/05/13 05:17 AM
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> > I know on some old boards the ROMs have been bad. I think that was a problem with
> > Bazooka. I'm sure gregf would know more about that one.
>
> I am not sure with PSE Bazooka.
IIRC, someone found a PSE board, but only one of the two graphics ROMs was good. Maybe it was Desert Patrol rather than Bazooka. The other PSE games don't sound like the right one to me, but it's been awhile.
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