|
Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
#314298 - 09/10/13 12:20 AM
|
|
|
Is anyone of you aware of the "Street Fighter II" board with the revision number 910204? Until now, the lowest version number in MAME is 910206. But I've seen someone selling a board with that very number. So, is this an undumped version of the game?
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: DaRayu]
#314299 - 09/10/13 12:43 AM
|
|
|
That or they made a typo. If they have a picture of the boot screen and it shows that then yeah it's undumped. Nobody knows all the versions that were made. I doubt even Capcom HQ has records of them.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314301 - 09/10/13 01:12 AM
|
|
|
Yes, I actually saw a screenshot. It's either a hack or genuine, but not a typo.
However, the letter A on the labels of the chips is written in a strange way, with a much thicker font than the rest of the texts. I asked for a clearer picture of the board.
Do you think this could be some kind of prototype or unreleased version? Because if it was used in actual arcades, I assume it would have been known by now, right?
Also, the board is in perfect condition. Totally clean. Doesn't look to me like something that was put into a public arcade.
The board has plastic "feet", even though I don't know if they originally belong to it.
There is one other reference to this game that I found, and that's only in French:
http://arcade-system.actifforum.com/t6057-version-sfii-cps1-non-referencee-sur-le-net
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: DaRayu]
#314302 - 09/10/13 01:26 AM
|
|
|
> Yes, I actually saw a screenshot. It's either a hack or genuine, but not a typo.
>
> However, the letter A on the labels of the chips is written in a strange way, with a
> much thicker font than the rest of the texts. I asked for a clearer picture of the
> board.
>
> Do you think this could be some kind of prototype or unreleased version?
Nope probably just an early version. It's possible it was a test location version before a wide release but I highly doubt it. Some versions are less common than others.
> Because if
> it was used in actual arcades, I assume it would have been known by now, right?
No. Being an expert on the games doesn't mean you've seen the boot screens. Nobody knows much about the revisions until we find them. I had never heard anyone ever mention a World Warrior version from 1992 ever until we happened upon the board. Nobody knows all the revisions for all the Capcom 90s games as I've said a few times now. We just find them as we go. There are some websites out there that list some versions of them that are undumped but they aren't complete.
> Also, the board is in perfect condition. Totally clean. Doesn't look to me like
> something that was put into a public arcade.
That doesn't mean anything. Put a board in the dishwasher and it will come out that way for example.
> The board has plastic "feet", even though I don't know if they originally belong to
> it.
Collectors and operators add feet to boards all the time. You can buy them in bulk.
> There is one other reference to this game that I found, and that's only in French:
> http://arcade-system.actifforum.com/t6057-version-sfii-cps1-non-referencee-sur-le-net
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314309 - 09/10/13 07:28 AM
|
|
|
O.k., in this case, could you maybe please explain me something?
With all the known revisions the chips have another letter. There is sf2ua, b, c, d, e, f, g, i, k. (The letters always match the letters on specific chips.)
Until now there have never been two boards with a different revision date, but the same letter.
So, if you really think that there is an arbitrary number of "Street Fighter II" revisions, what do you think would be the letter on the chips of a board that came out between version d and version e?
Isn't it a strange coincidence that the known revisions just happen to have a separate letter each time? If there is really an unknown number of undumped versions, shouldn't there statistically be at least two versions where the letter is the same while the revision date is different? Don't you think it's a bit too much of a coincidence that in the moment, the boards that are known, also all have distinct letters?
So, really, what would you imagine a board with a date that lies between sf2ud and sf2ue to look like? Would this have chip names like "sf2u 30d1/2"? Or "sf2u 30d.5"? Or "sf2u 30 de" Not really, right?
As far as I see it, every new revision has a new chip letter. There are no two regular board versions with a different in-game date, but the same letter on the chip labels.
As a consequence, you always know how many revisions are missing: In the moment, all that could appear from somewhere is the H version and the J version (not to be confused with the Japanese versions). And anything that might be beyond K.
But the possibility that in the next few years you might find, like, five new boards that all lie between the currently oldest and currently newest revision, that's basically impossible. Because what letters would these revisons have? If you say "The same letters as the current games", then you need to tell me why you think that there can be two revisions with the same letter, but a different date, even though this has never happened with this game until now. Until now, chip letter = revision distinction. For each chip letter there's exactly one revision date number. If you think another constellation is possible, please show me at least two boards taken from regular arcade machines where the revision date is different, but the chip name is the same, to back it up that this is even possible.
Which brings me back to that strange version 910204: The fact that this board has the same revision letter as the version 910206 even though this never happened with any other version (which statistically it should have, as I said, if there are really 30 versions of the game out there that all share 11 letters), and the fact that the letter A is written in a very strange way with a much thicker font than the rest of the chip label texts, leads me to one conclusion: This is either some custom hack of sf2ub (910214) with the letter B overwritten manually with a marker and that's why the letters look so different. (I need to see a better picture of the board to see if that's true.) Or this is really a rare prototype that was never used in a real arcade.
The theory that this might be just some regular currently undumped version that exists in 100 arcades all throughout the USA, that's pretty unlikely since, as I said, until now it has never been witnessed that two versions of the game with different revision dates share the same letter.
What do you say about this?
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: DaRayu]
#314311 - 09/10/13 03:41 PM
|
|
|
Unless you post a pic of this board where I can see all the program rom chips clearly I can't answer this. You can have a combination of chip version revisions in the program area, meaning some of them having an A and some some other letter - or no revision at all. So if the earliest version in mame has all A's and this one has A's only on some then yeah all fingers point to it being earlier. And a lot stranger things have happened than Capcom not changing sticker labels on 1 board. We don't even buy Final Fights that don't show a boot screen shot because they used the same rom labels over so many versions. It wasn't a perfect science. As I've said before, we care a lot more about rom labels than Capcom did/does.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314313 - 09/10/13 03:52 PM
|
|
|
The photo was a bit unclear. I will get back to you when I have a better one.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314320 - 09/10/13 05:58 PM
|
|
|
I have been trying to find out the differences between revisions of Capcom CPS2 (and 1) games, and why so many were made. So far, I have not found any mention of revision differences.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Diet Go Go Fan]
#314324 - 09/10/13 06:43 PM
|
|
|
They're a lot more subtle than Midway revisions. Midways would fix major bugs or add special moves where Capcom would balance AI and change stage orders.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314326 - 09/10/13 07:29 PM
|
|
|
Alright. I saw a better picture. O.k., my idea that the letter is written differently was nonsense. In the meantime, I have seen another picture of a regular sf2ua board and some letters seem to be a bit thicker than others. So, that doesn't say anything.
I still think that this board is not just some regular revision because until now, the letters on six chips have always been changed in every revision. It looks more like this game is the pre-version of the first actual A revision.
But have a look yourself:
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=286501
(The good pictures are in posts later in the thread.)
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: DaRayu]
#314327 - 09/10/13 07:34 PM
|
|
|
I can't view the pics because I'm not logged in and don't remember what my login stuff was but according to the current last post in the thread it's exactly as I said, some of the chips have A and some have nothing. So it's undumped/earlier than the oldest version currently in mame. And it's probably not the first version of the game either. The first version probably had no letters on any of the program chips.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#314328 - 09/10/13 07:44 PM
|
|
|
Right. It's an undumped version. (If some hacker didn't play an elaborated prank and hacked it and recreated the labels.) The one question that remains: Was this board ever commonly used, like the regular A and B versions?
(Shall I ask the guy if I may link his photos?)
And how much would you say is this board's monetary value? After all, only two of them have ever been confirmed to exist at all. (If the one from the French guy wasn't this very board.)
Would anybody of you dump it for the next version of MAME if the owner borrowed it to you?
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: DaRayu]
#314329 - 09/10/13 07:51 PM
|
|
|
> Right. It's an undumped version. (If some hacker didn't play an elaborated prank and
> hacked it and recreated the labels.) The one question that remains: Was this board
> ever commonly used, like the regular A and B versions?
There are no records of stuff like that. Most people don't pay attention to revisions.
> (Shall I ask the guy if I may link his photos?)
If someone has already made out the program rom stickers, it isn't necessary but wouldn't hurt.
> And how much would you say is this board's monetary value? After all, only two of
> them have ever been confirmed to exist at all. (If the one from the French guy wasn't
> this very board.)
Like I was saying above, most people don't care about revisions. When I've asked people on eBay about which revision they are selling they generally can't believe I care. So to 99% of the population it's worth the same as any SF2 board. For the other 1% it's worth more. $150 is steep in my opinion. It's just a random version (likely the 2nd). And also as I said, cleanliness doesn't increase value. You can put Jamma boards in the dishwasher and make them look brand new.
> Would anybody of you dump it for the next version of MAME if the owner borrowed it to
> you?
Yes.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Smitdogg]
#346807 - 11/08/15 02:34 AM
|
|
|
> > Right. It's an undumped version. (If some hacker didn't play an elaborated prank
> and
> > hacked it and recreated the labels.) The one question that remains: Was this board
> > ever commonly used, like the regular A and B versions?
>
> There are no records of stuff like that. Most people don't pay attention to
> revisions.
>
> > (Shall I ask the guy if I may link his photos?)
>
> If someone has already made out the program rom stickers, it isn't necessary but
> wouldn't hurt.
>
> > And how much would you say is this board's monetary value? After all, only two of
> > them have ever been confirmed to exist at all. (If the one from the French guy
> wasn't
> > this very board.)
>
> Like I was saying above, most people don't care about revisions. When I've asked
> people on eBay about which revision they are selling they generally can't believe I
> care. So to 99% of the population it's worth the same as any SF2 board. For the other
> 1% it's worth more. $150 is steep in my opinion. It's just a random version (likely
> the 2nd). And also as I said, cleanliness doesn't increase value. You can put Jamma
> boards in the dishwasher and make them look brand new.
>
> > Would anybody of you dump it for the next version of MAME if the owner borrowed it
> to
> > you?
>
> Yes.
Street fighter 910204 exists and is a world warrior version
|
|
|
|
|
Yes it exists and I have it. Proof is attached.
It's certainly a pre-release version, which is very rare.
My theory is that they may have found a critical bug on 910204 after starting mass production with this revision. Therefore they stopped production, fixed the bug then re-started production 2 days later with fixed version (910206). That may be why 910204 are very rare, unknown and undumped because only a few pieces were produced and maybe not sold in 1991 but kept in a warehouse then sold years later by people who decided to get rid of them.
Anyway, whatever the story is, I'm a proud owner of a rare version of my all-time favorite game. 
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Drumaster]
#369425 - 09/04/17 07:17 PM
|
|
|
> Yes it exists and I have it. Proof is attached.
>
> It's certainly a pre-release version, which is very rare.
>
I wish people would stop making claims like this, it's unfounded.
It's an uncommon revision of a very common game, for which updates were spewed out at regular intervals, it's far from the only case where there are revisions a few days apart; with gambling machines especially it happened with great frequency. Obviously, as it was only the current revision for 2 or 3 days, only machines in that 2-3 day period would ship with it, that explains why it isn't so common without any wild theories about it being pre-release.
people REALLY need to stop shouting 'prototype' and 'pre-release' for anything rare or that seems unfinished, it's starting to get incredibly irritating.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Haze]
#369426 - 09/04/17 08:15 PM
|
|
|
> > Yes it exists and I have it. Proof is attached.
> >
> > It's certainly a pre-release version, which is very rare.
> >
>
> I wish people would stop making claims like this, it's unfounded.
>
> It's an uncommon revision of a very common game, for which updates were spewed out at
> regular intervals, it's far from the only case where there are revisions a few days
> apart; with gambling machines especially it happened with great frequency. Obviously,
> as it was only the current revision for 2 or 3 days, only machines in that 2-3 day
> period would ship with it, that explains why it isn't so common without any wild
> theories about it being pre-release.
>
> people REALLY need to stop shouting 'prototype' and 'pre-release' for anything rare
> or that seems unfinished, it's starting to get incredibly irritating.
Not sure what you did not get in my post but let's make it step by step so you can understand my point:
- So far, the 1st version to be ever released is 910206 as it means 6th of February 1991 (hope you already got that), right? So 910204 is prior to 910206 as it means 4th of February 1991. We're still ok? So yes we can call it a pre-release or pre-mass official release as it has been released 2 days BEFORE 910206...
- Simply search 'Street Fighter 910204' on google and tell me what you get? We seem to be 2 people claiming to have this release through the WHOLE internet and we're talking about one of the MOST common game ever! So yes I know that not everyone checks their release number but still, it means it's RARE, even VERY rare, I'm sorry. Besides, it never was dumped.
So I don't know why you try to make me be one of those guys who 'shouts' 'prototype' (not sure what it means though) or something as it seems more than possible here, even if it's only my vision of the story of course.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Haze]
#369427 - 09/04/17 08:20 PM
|
|
|
> I wish people would stop making claims like this, it's unfounded.
>
> It's an uncommon revision of a very common game, for which updates were spewed out at
> regular intervals, it's far from the only case where there are revisions a few days
> apart; with gambling machines especially it happened with great frequency. Obviously,
> as it was only the current revision for 2 or 3 days, only machines in that 2-3 day
> period would ship with it, that explains why it isn't so common without any wild
> theories about it being pre-release.
>
> people REALLY need to stop shouting 'prototype' and 'pre-release' for anything rare
> or that seems unfinished, it's starting to get incredibly irritating.
Impressive public relations skills, now he'll really be receptive if any MAME dev were to attempt to reach out to him and inquire about getting it dumped.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369428 - 09/04/17 08:35 PM
|
|
|
> > I wish people would stop making claims like this, it's unfounded.
> >
> > It's an uncommon revision of a very common game, for which updates were spewed out
> at
> > regular intervals, it's far from the only case where there are revisions a few days
> > apart; with gambling machines especially it happened with great frequency.
> Obviously,
> > as it was only the current revision for 2 or 3 days, only machines in that 2-3 day
> > period would ship with it, that explains why it isn't so common without any wild
> > theories about it being pre-release.
> >
> > people REALLY need to stop shouting 'prototype' and 'pre-release' for anything rare
> > or that seems unfinished, it's starting to get incredibly irritating.
>
> Impressive public relations skills, now he'll really be receptive if any MAME dev
> were to attempt to reach out to him and inquire about getting it dumped.
I prefer a policy of honesty, too many people lately trying to use 'NOT IN MAME' and 'NOT DUMPED' as well as 'PRE-RELEASE' and 'PROTOTYPE' to inflate prices. Not impressed by it at all, not going to pander to such behaviour either.
We went through a spell of it about 10-15 years back where people started doing the same with bootlegs etc. because they often had different PCB designs or handwritten labels, that was just as irritating. We've also seen it with cheaply produced Korean PCBs for similar reasons, it gets old.
It's rare, it exists, but it's not exactly surprising for a company that churned out revisions like they were going out of style, nor is it likely to be that special.
I'd be much more interested in the rumoured early CPS3 revisions that were only available as pre-programmed flash, never on CD, whereby as soon as you put a CD in they'd update and be lost.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Drumaster]
#369429 - 09/04/17 08:43 PM
|
|
|
> - So far, the 1st version to be ever released is 910206 as it means 6th of February
> 1991 (hope you already got that), right? So 910204 is prior to 910206 as it means 4th
> of February 1991. We're still ok? So yes we can call it a pre-release or pre-mass
> official release as it has been released 2 days BEFORE 910206...
> - Simply search 'Street Fighter 910204' on google and tell me what you get? We seem
> to be 2 people claiming to have this release through the WHOLE internet and we're
> talking about one of the MOST common game ever! So yes I know that not everyone
> checks their release number but still, it means it's RARE, even VERY rare, I'm sorry.
> Besides, it never was dumped.
You're 100% correct, it's incredibly rare. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are multiple reasons for its:
1. Boards rolling off of Capcom's production lines would only have hard the 910204 revision for two days prior to 910206 being issued. Since arcade PCBs are not fabricated in anything approaching the massive numbers of most end-consumer gear, it stands to reason that there wouldn't have been that many boards that managed to roll off the line with that version.
2. This is pure conjecture on my part, but if Capcom were anything like Midway, then they would have made upgraded revisions available to existing owners in the form of replacement sets of ROM ICs. If they didn't, there's also a high likelihood that existing owners of the early versions would have obtained updated ROMs from other owners or operators. Speaking of upgrades, it would be far more likely for an owner to upgrade to the latest version, not downgrade to a previous version, over the lifespan of the game.
Is it a pre-release game? Who knows. It could be that the majority of release-date documentation is based on the more widely-released version, which was on assembly lines for 8 days at most, rather than 2 days at most. It could be that some programmer or manager at Capcom jumped the gun two days before the retail build was ready.
At the end of the day, it's cool because it's incredibly rare, and it being pre-release or not doesn't take away from its coolness.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Haze]
#369430 - 09/04/17 08:45 PM
|
|
|
> I prefer a policy of honesty, too many people lately trying to use 'NOT IN MAME' and
> 'NOT DUMPED' as well as 'PRE-RELEASE' and 'PROTOTYPE' to inflate prices. Not
> impressed by it at all, not going to pander to such behaviour either.
>
> We went through a spell of it about 10-15 years back where people started doing the
> same with bootlegs etc. because they often had different PCB designs or handwritten
> labels, that was just as irritating. We've also seen it with cheaply produced Korean
> PCBs for similar reasons, it gets old.
>
> It's rare, it exists, but it's not exactly surprising for a company that churned out
> revisions like they were going out of style, nor is it likely to be that special.
>
> I'd be much more interested in the rumoured early CPS3 revisions that were only
> available as pre-programmed flash, never on CD, whereby as soon as you put a CD in
> they'd update and be lost.
I think it's as believable as not that it's a pre-release version. Capcom may have "churned out versions like they were going out of style", but 2 days between builds is shockingly low. And last I checked, this guy wasn't trying to sell his PCB, so I don't know why you would give so much of a shit what PCB sellers do. It's a really weird hill to die on.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369431 - 09/04/17 08:47 PM
|
|
|
> > I prefer a policy of honesty, too many people lately trying to use 'NOT IN MAME'
> and
> > 'NOT DUMPED' as well as 'PRE-RELEASE' and 'PROTOTYPE' to inflate prices. Not
> > impressed by it at all, not going to pander to such behaviour either.
> >
> > We went through a spell of it about 10-15 years back where people started doing the
> > same with bootlegs etc. because they often had different PCB designs or handwritten
> > labels, that was just as irritating. We've also seen it with cheaply produced
> Korean
> > PCBs for similar reasons, it gets old.
> >
> > It's rare, it exists, but it's not exactly surprising for a company that churned
> out
> > revisions like they were going out of style, nor is it likely to be that special.
> >
> > I'd be much more interested in the rumoured early CPS3 revisions that were only
> > available as pre-programmed flash, never on CD, whereby as soon as you put a CD in
> > they'd update and be lost.
>
> I think it's as believable as not that it's a pre-release version. Capcom may have
> "churned out versions like they were going out of style", but 2 days between builds
> is shockingly low. And last I checked, this guy wasn't trying to sell his PCB, so I
> don't know why you would give so much of a shit what PCB sellers do. It's a really
> weird hill to die on.
This person might not be, but let's not have other people trying to reference this as an excuse to do so. We're seeing it far too often as of late.
The fact that you can already find mentions of it with known owners means it's less rare than a lot of the random and completely unheard of stuff that does show up out of the blue.
It would be nice to see it dumped, because it is important that people work together, not try to exploit situations for profit, unfortunately when people start doing the latter we then also risk people faking sets in order to cash in on the situation too (again, not accusing this poster of this, but even with the Gaelco stuff I had one guy contact me, tell me he could help us, and then basically just offer me $400 for exclusive advance access to the SRAM dumps, there are unscrupulous people out there)
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Drumaster]
#369437 - 09/05/17 05:26 AM
|
|
|
Don't worry about Haze. He's just being Haze.
|
|
|
| B2K24 |
|
MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 10/25/10
|
|
Posts: 2663
|
|
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: anikom15]
#369439 - 09/05/17 06:04 AM
|
|
|
All arguments aside if it really is the PCB owners favorite game of all-time then he should be happy to share the dumps with MAME and allow MAME to document it's existence.
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: B2K24]
#369443 - 09/05/17 12:09 PM
|
|
|
I'm actually in touch with Smitdogg to know how we could dump it (as I can't myself).
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: anikom15]
#369444 - 09/05/17 12:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: B2K24]
#369451 - 09/05/17 05:31 PM
|
|
|
And if he's not happy to share then that is okay too.
We're not communists and we shouldn't demonize anyone who doesn't want to see her own property contributing to MAME.
Edited by anikom15 (09/05/17 05:31 PM)
|
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: anikom15]
#369463 - 09/06/17 03:13 AM
|
|
|
Speak for yourself, I would definitely lean socialist/communist/don't care the label when it comes to preservation and and I would shit all over a hoarder. If you want hoarder friendly try klov or something.
|
|
|
| smf |
|
I've been here before
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reged: 01/16/15
|
|
Posts: 130
|
|
|
|
|
|
Send PM
|
|
|
Re: Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
[Re: Drumaster]
#369596 - 09/11/17 11:32 AM
|
|
|
> Not sure what you did not get in my post but let's make it step by step so you can
> understand my point:
> - So far, the 1st version to be ever released is 910206 as it means 6th of February
> 1991 (hope you already got that), right?
So far the earliest known release was 910206.
> So 910204 is prior to 910206 as it means 4th
> of February 1991. We're still ok? So yes we can call it a pre-release or pre-mass
> official release as it has been released 2 days BEFORE 910206...
Once it's dumped then we can say the earliest known release is 910204.
If someone finds an earlier build then that becomes the earliest known release.
It may be bit rot or a manufacturing defect causing an incorrect date to be shown. It might be a location test or review sample. Whatever bugs are fixed may have already been found before 910204, but were taking too long to fix and there was a reason this board needed to be manufactured.
We may be missing a whole lot of builds, we struggle to get people to dump different revisions. The more builds there are, the less there are of each board and then the less likely they are to be dumped.
Without provenance and without a dump you can't really draw any conclusions.
Edited by John Doe (09/11/17 11:39 AM)
|
|
|
Index 
Threaded 
Street Fighter II USA 910204??? What's that?
Reply
[Re: 
