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Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
#313210 - 08/22/13 01:21 AM
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I'm looking for two kinds of controllers to play "Street Fighter II" or one of its variants. And I thought that you might be able to help me.
At first I want you to know that it's totally unimportant which machine the controllers are for. It doesn't matter if they are for PC, PlayStation, XBox or whatever. I play the game through a real arcade board that is connected to a supergun and the controllers will be edited anyway. So, the actual platform is totally unimportant.
The first controller that I'm looking for:
I need a controller that plays like the real control unit on an arcade machine, i.e. with a joystick.
Now, the thing is: Let's say I buy a PlayStation fighter controller. How will the joystick be mapped? Is it supposed to be the PlayStation's analog stick or is it mapped to the PlayStation's d-pad? Because if it's mapped to the analog stick, won't that feel totally different than a real arcade unit? The joystick on a "Street Fighter" arcade game is a simple digital eight ways controller. So, which buyable controller do I have to take when I want the joystick to be a digital one?
The second controller that I need:
I need a controller with a d-pad. The d-pad needs to be of high quality. Remember the old Super Nintendo controllers? The d-pads of them were perfect. On the other hand, the d-pad of the standard Gravis PC gamepad was horrible. So, I need a controller with a d-pad that can match the Super Nintendo's. The reason why I don't just take a Super Nintendo controller itself: I want a controller with six action buttons on the front. On the Super Nintendo you have to use the shoulder buttons for hard punch and hard kick. The same goes for the PlayStation controllers: They only have four primary action buttons as well, with the shoulder buttons for additional functions. But I need one where six buttons are positioned on the front side in the same layout as in "Street Fighter" games: Two rows with three buttons each.
So, those are the controllers that I need: One with a joystick for authentic arcade feeling and one with a d-pad like on the Super Nintendo, only with all six buttons available on the front.
Again: The console that the gampads are for or if that console actually has a "Street Fighter" game is absolutely unimportant. All I need is the controllers itself since they'll be modified for a supergun anyway.
Thanks a lot in advance.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313213 - 08/22/13 02:11 AM
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hello darayu i cant help with a dpad/handheld controller recommendation but for arcade sticks perhaps one of these below (see first 2 pics) ... they come up regularly on ebay. and as you already correctly assumed, avoid joysticks which allow for analog mode control as they wont feel right for eg. SFII etc (if u find an arcade joystick you like the look of, check it doesnt have an analog mode/switch on the case somewhere. google for reviews/opinions etc... note: there are reviews on youtube for the playstation namco arcade stick and the dreamcast arcade stick)
obviously avoid garbage like this stuff below (cheap buttons are often a good indication that the joystick will be 'cheap' also...)
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Reged: 08/14/04
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Posts: 6820
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Loc: Neither here, nor there.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313218 - 08/22/13 07:42 AM
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For a D-Pad (IMEO) I've found the Saturn to be the best for fighting games. The button layout is great too (although, I've always played with 3 of my fingers above the buttons rather than with my thumb). Good luck finding one that isn't so cheaply built that it lasts about a week. Some are very cheap, others are ridiculously high priced.
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LEVEL-4
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#313250 - 08/22/13 09:46 PM
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@grog:
Thanks, but those all have that "Pac-Man"-like knob. And "Street Fighter II" arcade machines always use those slender sticks.
Also, how come the buttons on a real arcade machine are always concave while the console and PC controllers have convex ones?
And last but not least, the buttons on a "Street Fighter II" arcade are put in a straight line while the ones on the controllers are always positioned in an arc.
Aren't there any buyable controllers that are modeled after the original arcade layout?
> For a D-Pad (IMEO) I've found the Saturn to be the best for fighting games.
Hmm. Looks like the same layout as the Genesis controller. But honestly, I don't like the fact that the upper buttons are smaller than the lower ones.
So, thanks for your suggestions so far, but I haven't found the perfect controllers yet. Any other suggestions are welcome.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313252 - 08/22/13 10:30 PM
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havnt watched this but worth a look perhaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kZG0p58kQ
many street fighter fans prefer balltops such as sanwa JLF or seimitsu LS32 joysticks which you see on the jap candy cabs, egret cabs etc.. i think buttons are a personal choice, some players prefer concave, some dont. speaking personally, i wouldnt bother with concave just because the original streetfighterII cabs had them, id go with what i actually personally prefer.
same with button layout.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313257 - 08/23/13 12:19 AM
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> Thanks, but those all have that "Pac-Man"-like knob. And "Street Fighter II" arcade
> machines always use those slender sticks.
Only in America. Japanese cabinets always used the Sanwa or Seimitsu ball-top sticks, and they're preferred by most serious fighting game fans. Australia has the MCA balltop sticks, with thicker shafts, smaller balls and stiffer action.
> Also, how come the buttons on a real arcade machine are always concave while the
> console and PC controllers have convex ones?
Once again you're showing limited experience: Japanese arcade cabinets have flat or slightly convex buttons. They're easier to play on if there are enough to necessitate moving fingers between buttons, and far easier to mash for games that require it.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#313263 - 08/23/13 02:05 AM
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> havnt watched this but worth a look perhaps:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kZG0p58kQ
Yeah, maybe this could work.
Any other suggestions? (I'd like to have a bunch to choose from.)
What would you say about this one:
www.amazon.com/dp/B004JZ37IY
Does it also exist without "Street Fighter" artwork?
> Only in America. Japanese cabinets always used the Sanwa or Seimitsu ball-top sticks,
> and they're preferred by most serious fighting game fans.
Well, my board is "Street Fighter II (USA 910206)". So, yeah, I'd prefer a controller that comes closest to how this very arcade cabinet would look like.
> with thicker shafts, smaller balls and stiffer action.
Huh, huh! »immature snicker«
> Once again you're showing limited experience
Of course. Have you ever been to Germany? We have literally zero arcades here. The only time I've played "Street Fighter II" on an arcade cabinet was a bootlet version in Spain in 1996. (The one where one Dragon Punch shoots out six fireballs. Isn't that sad?)
> Japanese arcade cabinets have flat or slightly convex buttons.
Yeah, but are the Japanese arcade cabinets the most commonly known? I would have thought that the American ones are the ones that are known by most gamers. So, how come the controllers are all based on how the Japanese cabinets look like?
By the way, is there a document or a website where the layout of arcade cabinet controls are documented? (I.e. the exact measurements of the button and joystick locations.) Maybe I'll just get someone to build one from scratch with actual arcade parts.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313269 - 08/23/13 03:37 AM
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> > Only in America. Japanese cabinets always used the Sanwa or Seimitsu ball-top
> sticks,
> > and they're preferred by most serious fighting game fans.
>
> Well, my board is "Street Fighter II (USA 910206)". So, yeah, I'd prefer a controller
> that comes closest to how this very arcade cabinet would look like.
Those boards were exported bare, and cabinets were manufactured locally. There was no single standard cabinet for it. It would've looked different regionally.
> > Japanese arcade cabinets have flat or slightly convex buttons.
>
> Yeah, but are the Japanese arcade cabinets the most commonly known? I would have
> thought that the American ones are the ones that are known by most gamers. So, how
> come the controllers are all based on how the Japanese cabinets look like?
American cabinets actually aren't that common outside America. Asia has tended to use Japanese cabinets or clones all along. From the late '90s onwards a lot of Sega and Namco cabinets were exported worldwide, particularly second-hand Sega Astro City. There's never been much of a market for console fighting sticks with American controls. People serious enough to want them will prefer the ergonomics of Japanese controls - they're better suited to fighting games. American controls can be found in things like X-arcade, built by Americans to help fellow Americans relive the American arcade experience of their childhood at home.
> By the way, is there a document or a website where the layout of arcade cabinet
> controls are documented? (I.e. the exact measurements of the button and joystick
> locations.) Maybe I'll just get someone to build one from scratch with actual arcade
> parts.
Well that varied enormously, too. Even in the same cabinet you could have different control panels. For example a Sega Astro City could have a Sanwa panel, or a Seimitsu panel, each with a different layout and slightly different controls. Then Namco cabinets had standard panels that were different again. Building from scratch is your best option for sure. That lets you choose the exact controls and layout you want.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313271 - 08/23/13 03:43 AM
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> By the way, is there a document or a website where
> the layout of arcade cabinet controls are documented?
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html
perhaps print some out and lay the printout on a table, put your fingers in position where the buttons are printed... go with what feels best for you
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: grog]
#313302 - 08/23/13 01:16 PM
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> > By the way, is there a document or a website where
> > the layout of arcade cabinet controls are documented?
>
> http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html
>
> perhaps print some out and lay the printout on a table, put your fingers in position
> where the buttons are printed... go with what feels best for you
That's a pretty cool site, thanks for the link.
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| Tomu Breidah |
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No Problems, Only Solutions
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Reged: 08/14/04
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Posts: 6820
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Loc: Neither here, nor there.
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: DaRayu]
#313311 - 08/23/13 04:12 PM
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> > For a D-Pad (IMEO) I've found the Saturn to be the best for fighting games.
>
> Hmm. Looks like the same layout as the Genesis controller. But honestly, I don't like
> the fact that the upper buttons are smaller than the lower ones.
>
>
> So, thanks for your suggestions so far, but I haven't found the perfect controllers
> yet. Any other suggestions are welcome.
I've got 1/2 the notion to design a control pad in a 3D modeling program, the D-Pad, and buttons.... Then, if/when I ever get a 3D printer - print out the parts, then EITHER obtain some clear plastic/polyester film type of (custom) printed circuit for the contacts for the push-buttons (with a sheet of hard plastic behind it - instead of the usual silicon circuit board), and have those flexible circuit sheets (I have no idea what the official name for them is) slip into thin connector slots that connect to... (hold that thought) or just use some tiny micro leaf switches for the buttons and directions and have them all wired to a small central... PCB that has all the directional, button, and ground contact points. My best bet would be to either find such a device (for the control) or hack (as in literally hack off the unessential areas of) an existing controller, then connect (I've rambled on long enough here) everything. 
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: Tomu Breidah]
#313324 - 08/24/13 12:48 AM
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I am using an old Neo-Geo playstation pad which is an exact replica of the ancient CDZ pad. Haven't used this sucker in a while but it works great after all these years! I would like a USB one however, and preferrably wireless. Anyone know if they're available?
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: Matty_]
#313911 - 09/03/13 02:04 PM
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> Those boards were exported bare, and cabinets were manufactured locally. There was no
> single standard cabinet for it. It would've looked different regionally.
So, there is no dedicated "Street Fighter II" arcade machine? Just generic ones where the artwork was pasted on?
> http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html
>
> perhaps print some out and lay the printout on a table, put your fingers in position
> where the buttons are printed... go with what feels best for you
That looks pretty nice. Thanks.
> I am using an old Neo-Geo playstation pad
The NeoGeo-like gamepad doesn't use a standard d-pad, so it isn't suitable for me.
Do you know if this controller:
www.hyperkin.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/0/m05766-ry_8.jpg
exists without "Street Fighter" artwork?
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Re: Looking for joystick and d-pad controller
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#313913 - 09/03/13 02:50 PM
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> Australia has the MCA balltop sticks, with thicker shafts, smaller balls and stiffer action.
No wonder the kangaroo's bounce so high! 
*Sorry, but i just couldn't resist that*
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