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ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
#313111 - 08/19/13 05:16 PM
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tried a simple program on the C128 that I wrote myself as a teenager, and not only was the screen messed up (it had like a left and right side) but it seemed awful slow and the music stuttered.
Tried N64... slow as heck.
My question is, which systems is MESS actually useful for, as in near perfect, full speed, emulation?
As buggy and slow as c128 is, I didn't bother trying C64, but I was wondering if any devs have looked at the vice source code for these systems? I use winvice myself and the emulation seems pretty close to perfect.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: URherenow]
#313112 - 08/19/13 05:44 PM
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> tried a simple program on the C128 that I wrote myself as a teenager, and not only
> was the screen messed up (it had like a left and right side) but it seemed awful slow
> and the music stuttered.
> Tried N64... slow as heck.
>
> My question is, which systems is MESS actually useful for, as in near perfect, full
> speed, emulation?
>
> As buggy and slow as c128 is, I didn't bother trying C64, but I was wondering if any
> devs have looked at the vice source code for these systems? I use winvice myself and
> the emulation seems pretty close to perfect.
MESS's C128 is basically unsupported. C64 is quite compatible, however. Fastloaders work, MIDI cartridges work, the Z80 CP/M cartridge boots up fine. Unfortunately it's also very demanding on the CPU at the moment - there are some very obvious ways to get the speed back, but Curt's going for perfection first, fast second, and C128 somewhere later ;-) VIC-20 runs well and is reasonably fast too - several recent pieces of new VIC-20 software were created on MESS because our debugger is awesome.
Beyond that, MESS does well on these systems: Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision, NES (including most mappers and the Famicom disk system), Vectrex, Odyssey2, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, TurboGrafix-16, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, Virtual Boy, PlayStation (including memory card saves), Sega Saturn, 8-bit Apple II, Apple IIgs, Macintosh (up to 68030), IBM PC/XT/AT/Jr. plus 386 and 486 clones (CGA/EGA/VGA video and AdLib and Sound Blaster 16 sound are supported plus MPU-401 output to a real MT-32 if you have one), TRS-80 Color Computer, TI99-4/A, the Commodore PETs, and a bunch of Japan-only computers (MSX-1 and -2, NEC PC-88 and PC-98, Fujitsu FM-Towns, Sharp X68000, etc, etc).
And as hinted, MESS lets you configure the PC, Apple II series, TI99-4/A, and NuBus Macs with a variety of cards - video, sound, Ethernet, etc. You really want to use the QMC2 front end to make configuring that easy though 
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| Moose |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: URherenow]
#313140 - 08/20/13 09:43 AM
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> My question is, which systems is MESS actually useful for, as in near perfect, full
> speed, emulation?
In addition to what RB said above, this might also help: MESS Emulation Status by System
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Moose
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Worthless
[Re: Moose]
#313146 - 08/20/13 12:41 PM
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looked at the site, and first thing I checked was Commodore 128. Says it's good, but it obviously is not.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: URherenow]
#313148 - 08/20/13 02:02 PM
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> My question is, which systems is MESS actually useful for, as in near perfect, full
> speed, emulation?
Try the MESSy list. 
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313151 - 08/20/13 02:40 PM
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> > tried a simple program on the C128 that I wrote myself as a teenager, and not only
> > was the screen messed up (it had like a left and right side) but it seemed awful
> slow
> > and the music stuttered.
> > Tried N64... slow as heck.
> >
> > My question is, which systems is MESS actually useful for, as in near perfect, full
> > speed, emulation?
> >
> > As buggy and slow as c128 is, I didn't bother trying C64, but I was wondering if
> any
> > devs have looked at the vice source code for these systems? I use winvice myself
> and
> > the emulation seems pretty close to perfect.
>
> MESS's C128 is basically unsupported. C64 is quite compatible, however. Fastloaders
> work, MIDI cartridges work, the Z80 CP/M cartridge boots up fine. Unfortunately it's
> also very demanding on the CPU at the moment - there are some very obvious ways to
> get the speed back, but Curt's going for perfection first, fast second, and C128
> somewhere later ;-) VIC-20 runs well and is reasonably fast too - several recent
> pieces of new VIC-20 software were created on MESS because our debugger is awesome.
C64 emulation in MESS is quite good. Only the VIC-II part is completely a "MESS"... just try a demo and/or an intensive raster effects game and cry... C1541 emulation is good too, even if some turbo-disk loaders doesn't seem to work. SID sound seems perfect to me.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: Mamesick]
#313155 - 08/20/13 05:07 PM
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> C64 emulation in MESS is quite good. Only the VIC-II part is completely a "MESS"...
> just try a demo and/or an intensive raster effects game and cry...
The VIC-II is actually pretty good, but Curt hasn't synced it up with the cycle-perfect 6510 that Olivier put in recently yet.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313159 - 08/20/13 07:25 PM
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If I can ever figure out where in storage my Indus GT floppy drive for C64 and its utility disks went to, I will gladly donate them for analysis and emulation. The GT was a hundred times better than the 1541; I never regretted investing in it.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313163 - 08/20/13 10:13 PM
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> Beyond that, MESS does well on these systems: Atari 2600, Intellivision,
> Colecovision, NES (including most mappers and the Famicom disk system), Atari 7800, Vectrex,
> Odyssey2, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD, TurboGrafix-16, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy
> Advance, Virtual Boy, PlayStation (including memory card saves), Sega Saturn, 8-bit
> Apple II, Apple IIgs, Macintosh (up to 68030), IBM PC/XT/AT/Jr. plus 386 and 486
> clones (CGA/EGA/VGA video and AdLib and Sound Blaster 16 sound are supported plus
> MPU-401 output to a real MT-32 if you have one), TRS-80 Color Computer, TI99-4/A, the
> Commodore PETs, and a bunch of Japan-only computers (MSX-1 and -2, NEC PC-88 and
> PC-98, Fujitsu FM-Towns, Sharp X68000, etc, etc).
Missed One
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: MrGoodwraith]
#313167 - 08/20/13 10:19 PM
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> If I can ever figure out where in storage my Indus GT floppy drive for C64 and its
> utility disks went to, I will gladly donate them for analysis and emulation. The GT
> was a hundred times better than the 1541; I never regretted investing in it.
That would be awesome. I think it's one of the few C64 peripherals we don't support in some way. (The CP/M machine that attaches to a PET or can be used standalone is my current favorite C= thing in MESS).
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: MrGoodwraith]
#313168 - 08/20/13 10:21 PM
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Good topic and thanks for the reply arbee.
I would like to ask about Saturn emulation:
1)How well does MESS emulate Saturn compared to SSF? Speed and compatibility as good? Better?
2)When running Saturn games, do you need to mount each iso/zip/rar file to a Virtual Drive in order to launch the game ala SSF?
3)Before running Japanese games, is it required that you change the region manually in MESS or is there some sort of universal bios that runs both US and JPN?
BONUS unrelated question
Does MESS emulate the Japanese console systems PC-Engine and PC FX? If so, how well?
Edited by Outrun2006 (08/20/13 10:26 PM)
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313170 - 08/20/13 11:02 PM
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> The VIC-II is actually pretty good, but Curt hasn't synced it up with the
> cycle-perfect 6510 that Olivier put in recently yet.
How can you know it's good if it's not in sync? IIRC it wasn't in sync with the old 6502 code either.
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| B2K24 |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: Outrun2006]
#313172 - 08/21/13 12:57 AM
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1) hard question to answer. If you have the image to try with SSF then try it with MESS and see the results for yourself
2)No need to mount anything in any virtual drive.
If using QMC2 have the system selected and pick the devices/file chooser tab which then allows you to point it to an image.
An example or command line (adjust your paths and image name as necessary)
Quote:
mess64.exe -rompath "J:\MESS\roms" -hashpath "J:\MESS\hash" saturn -cdrom "J:\Panzer Dragoon (USA) (DW0574)\Panzer Dragoon (USA) (DW0574).cue"
Bonus
PC-Engine works much better than PC-FX
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313186 - 08/21/13 10:14 AM
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Think the last drives I used were the 1571's.
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Just broke my personal record for number of consecutive days without dying!
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313190 - 08/21/13 03:28 PM
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> > C64 emulation in MESS is quite good. Only the VIC-II part is completely a "MESS"...
> > just try a demo and/or an intensive raster effects game and cry...
>
> The VIC-II is actually pretty good, but Curt hasn't synced it up with the
> cycle-perfect 6510 that Olivier put in recently yet.
I would disagree... VIC-II in MESS is based on C64 FRODO emulator source code, which is quite imperfect and buggy if compared with WINVICE emulation (which is imperfect too if compared with a real C64... which I still own and play frequently)
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: ]
#313195 - 08/21/13 05:54 PM
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> > The VIC-II is actually pretty good, but Curt hasn't synced it up with the
> > cycle-perfect 6510 that Olivier put in recently yet.
>
> How can you know it's good if it's not in sync? IIRC it wasn't in sync with the old
> 6502 code either.
Because it's from another emulator that does a lot more of the fancy effects than we do. And sync wasn't possible with the old 6510.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: Outrun2006]
#313196 - 08/21/13 05:58 PM
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> 1)How well does MESS emulate Saturn compared to SSF? Speed and compatibility as good?
> Better?
We win some, we lose some on compatibility vs. SSF. On a semi-high-end system 100% solid is likely for most games.
> 2)When running Saturn games, do you need to mount each iso/zip/rar file to a Virtual
> Drive in order to launch the game ala SSF?
No. iso and bin/cue images can be run directly, although converting to CHD is preferable since it generally comes out smaller than rar or 7zip.
> 3)Before running Japanese games, is it required that you change the region manually
> in MESS or is there some sort of universal bios that runs both US and JPN?
MESS emulates each region's model specifically, so run discs with the proper region's system and you get the region-correct boot animation and everything.
> BONUS unrelated question
>
> Does MESS emulate the Japanese console systems PC-Engine and PC FX? If so, how well?
PC-Engine cartridges are generally fine. Some CD-ROM and SGX games also work but problems exist there. PC-FX sort of shows the dashboard right now, no games run.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313202 - 08/21/13 11:00 PM
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> 1)How well does MESS emulate Saturn compared to SSF? Speed and compatibility as
> good?
> > Better?
>
> We win some, we lose some on compatibility vs. SSF. On a semi-high-end system 100%
> solid is likely for most games.
>
> > 2)When running Saturn games, do you need to mount each iso/zip/rar file to a
> Virtual
> > Drive in order to launch the game ala SSF?
>
> No. iso and bin/cue images can be run directly, although converting to CHD is
> preferable since it generally comes out smaller than rar or 7zip.
>
> > 3)Before running Japanese games, is it required that you change the region manually
> > in MESS or is there some sort of universal bios that runs both US and JPN?
>
> MESS emulates each region's model specifically, so run discs with the proper region's
> system and you get the region-correct boot animation and everything.
>
> > BONUS unrelated question
> >
> > Does MESS emulate the Japanese console systems PC-Engine and PC FX? If so, how
> well?
>
> PC-Engine cartridges are generally fine. Some CD-ROM and SGX games also work but
> problems exist there. PC-FX sort of shows the dashboard right now, no games run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank you very much B2K24 and RB. That is helpful I'll be getting a bunch of Saturn and PC-FX games from my friend next month who's an old school collector, so I can't wait to check these out.
I've been messing around with MESSUI64 this morning. Seems like SegaCD doesn't work?
Also, In you guys' opinion, which is the absolute best frontend for MESS? Does MESS work in Hyperspin? Been hearing a lot of good things about HS.
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| B2K24 |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: Outrun2006]
#313208 - 08/22/13 01:08 AM
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| Moose |
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Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
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Re: Worthless
[Re: URherenow]
#313216 - 08/22/13 03:34 AM
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> looked at the site, and first thing I checked was Commodore 128. Says it's good, but
> it obviously is not.
Might be worth sending the page maintainer an email asking them to update or justify the "good" status.
At the bottom of the C=128 page it had a link to VICE (http://www.viceteam.org/).
Other than that, don't shoot the messenger - saying "worthless" to my reply is *very* rude, and I was only trying to help. :/
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Moose
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313223 - 08/22/13 11:24 AM
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> Because it's from another emulator that does a lot more of the fancy effects than we
> do. And sync wasn't possible with the old 6510.
It doesn't display the border correctly, even at the READY. prompt.
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Re: Worthless
[Re: URherenow]
#313224 - 08/22/13 11:31 AM
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> looked at the site, and first thing I checked was Commodore 128. Says it's good, but
> it obviously is not.
The major issue is it boots up in 80 column mode, not sure if it's possible to stop that.
GO64 works and then it uses VIC mode. The VIC border has issues worse than in the c64 driver & it runs half the speed of the c64 driver.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: ]
#313232 - 08/22/13 04:51 PM
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> > Because it's from another emulator that does a lot more of the fancy effects than
> we
> > do. And sync wasn't possible with the old 6510.
>
> It doesn't display the border correctly, even at the READY. prompt.
Yep, the right side which is larger should be at least on the left side, if not visible at all..........
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: B2K24]
#313234 - 08/22/13 05:16 PM
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> The absolute best Front End for MESS is QMC2
>
> http://wiki.batcom-it.net/index.php?title=The_%27ultimate%27_guide_to_QMC2
>
> And once you become familiar with some things, Command Line is relativity simple for
> console systems.
>
> Sega CD definitely works...It just requires bios files that are dumped as .bin (roms)
>
> segacd
> segacd2
Yeah, you can definitely play Sonic CD, which is 99% of the reason anyone ever emulates SegaCD
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: ]
#313235 - 08/22/13 05:18 PM
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> > Because it's from another emulator that does a lot more of the fancy effects than
> we
> > do. And sync wasn't possible with the old 6510.
>
> It doesn't display the border correctly, even at the READY. prompt.
That's still less than is wrong with the PSX GPU. It's cute how you ask for memory card files to show bugs and then your email auto-trashes anything Haze or I send you.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313237 - 08/22/13 05:40 PM
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: R. Belmont]
#313247 - 08/22/13 08:26 PM
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> That's still less than is wrong with the PSX GPU. It's cute how you ask for memory
> card files to show bugs and then your email auto-trashes anything Haze or I send you.
How is that relevant to my questioning this statement?
> > The VIC-II is actually pretty good, but Curt hasn't synced it up with the
> > cycle-perfect 6510 that Olivier put in recently yet.
A VIC-II that can't draw the border on the boot up screen isn't actually pretty good. It's the first thing you see and AFAIK isn't related to the 6502 because it's not doing anything with the VIC that could cause that no matter how badly the timing was implemented.
I don't claim the PSX GPU is accurate, so I don't have to get super defensive when people point out the obvious flaws.
You appear to have been hanging out with Haze too much.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: ]
#313258 - 08/23/13 12:55 AM
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This thread is derailing fast. Keep the name dropping out all this, please, you guys.
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Re: ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
[Re: Tafoid]
#313280 - 08/23/13 04:35 AM
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> This thread is derailing fast. Keep the name dropping out all this, please, you guys.
That was my polite on topic reply
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Re: Worthless
[Re: Moose]
#313300 - 08/23/13 11:12 AM
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> > looked at the site, and first thing I checked was Commodore 128. Says it's good,
> but
> > it obviously is not.
>
> Might be worth sending the page maintainer an email asking them to update or justify
> the "good" status.
all info in that website are automatically generated from MESS -listxml output, so it's the MAME/MESS source to be fixed
this also reminds me that I haven't updated the database in a few weeks due to real life, so I need to sync to latest source...
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ok, so I just tried mess for the first time
Reply
[Re: 
