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How to sharpen the image?
#310137 - 06/12/13 09:21 AM
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Just a little, as the default looks slightly blurry. Usually prescale solves this, but not now. I have HLSL enabled, and so increased the prescale within that, but that didn't work, either.
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| John IV |
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Traso]
#310175 - 06/13/13 12:31 AM
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: John IV]
#310222 - 06/13/13 07:37 PM
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Must say, have to agree with the OP, it's a right old blurry mess now.
It's almost as if there is some defocus X,Y 'baked in' and you can't turn it off.
Nothing seems to sharpen the image.
..this Bloom is fantastic for Vector games, but it seems to have fundamentally degraded the image for raster based games without any way of getting a sharp image.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310223 - 06/13/13 07:58 PM
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As an example:
GNG on MAME 148:
..now on 149 with the EXACT same HLSL settings:
..no matter what I try, I can't get the 149 image any sharper unless (obviously) HLSL is turned off.
now 148 again, but with Defocus X=2 Y=2
Looks almost the same as 149, as I hinted at before, 149 looks like it has Defocus already hard coded into MAME with no way of turning it off.
Edited by Ziggy100 (06/13/13 08:06 PM)
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310225 - 06/13/13 08:16 PM
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I appreciate the reports, but HLSL is unlikely to get any further work done to it. Just turn it off for raster games if you can't get the image you'd like.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310226 - 06/13/13 08:21 PM
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310240 - 06/14/13 02:50 AM
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Try to increase power values a bit. That'll make colors a bit darker and will reduce blooming effect.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310249 - 06/14/13 07:02 AM
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> ..no matter what I try, I can't get the 149 image any sharper unless (obviously) HLSL
> is turned off.
What settings are you using? The default hlsl settings in 0.149 look better than that.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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I didn't find anything wrong with it. MAME 0.149
Don't use these hlsl_prescale and shadow_mask. Might not work on your screen. Use the default settings and then go up from there on the prescale. You can use the rest if you want.
Quote:
hlsl_prescale_x 6
hlsl_prescale_y 6
shadow_mask_x_count 330
shadow_mask_y_count 180
This is the settings that I use on my wide screen. 1920x1080
This is in window mode right now. Almost sharp and less blur.
Quote:
#
# CORE CONFIGURATION OPTIONS
#
readconfig 1
writeconfig 0
#
# CORE SEARCH PATH OPTIONS
#
rompath roms
hashpath hash
samplepath samples
artpath artwork
ctrlrpath ctrlr
inipath .;ini
fontpath .
cheatpath cheat
crosshairpath crosshair
#
# CORE OUTPUT DIRECTORY OPTIONS
#
cfg_directory cfg
nvram_directory nvram
memcard_directory memcard
input_directory inp
state_directory sta
snapshot_directory snap
diff_directory diff
comment_directory comments
#
# CORE STATE/PLAYBACK OPTIONS
#
state
autosave 0
playback
record
mngwrite
aviwrite
wavwrite
snapname %g/%i
snapsize auto
snapview internal
statename %g
burnin 0
#
# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
autoframeskip 0
frameskip 0
seconds_to_run 0
throttle 1
sleep 1
speed 1.0
refreshspeed 1
#
# CORE ROTATION OPTIONS
#
rotate 1
ror 0
rol 0
autoror 0
autorol 0
flipx 0
flipy 0
#
# CORE ARTWORK OPTIONS
#
artwork_crop 0
use_backdrops 1
use_overlays 1
use_bezels 1
use_cpanels 1
use_marquees 1
#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness 1.0
contrast 1.0
gamma 1.0
pause_brightness 0.65
effect none
#
# CORE VECTOR OPTIONS
#
antialias 0
beam 1.5
flicker 0
#
# CORE SOUND OPTIONS
#
sound 1
samplerate 48000
samples 1
volume 0
#
# CORE INPUT OPTIONS
#
coin_lockout 1
ctrlr
mouse 0
joystick 1
lightgun 0
multikeyboard 0
multimouse 0
steadykey 0
ui_active 0
offscreen_reload 0
joystick_map auto
joystick_deadzone 0.3
joystick_saturation 0.85
natural 0
joystick_contradictory 0
coin_impulse 0
#
# CORE INPUT AUTOMATIC ENABLE OPTIONS
#
paddle_device keyboard
adstick_device keyboard
pedal_device keyboard
dial_device keyboard
trackball_device keyboard
lightgun_device keyboard
positional_device keyboard
mouse_device mouse
#
# CORE DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
log 0
verbose 0
update_in_pause 0
debug 0
debugscript
debug_internal 0
#
# CORE MISC OPTIONS
#
bios
cheat 0
skip_gameinfo 0
uifont default
ramsize
confirm_quit 0
ui_mouse 0
autoboot_command
autoboot_delay 2
autoboot_script
#
# WINDOWS DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
oslog 0
watchdog 0
debugger_font "Lucida Console"
debugger_font_size 9
#
# WINDOWS PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
priority 0
multithreading 1
numprocessors auto
profile 0
bench 0
#
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video d3d
numscreens 1
window 1
maximize 1
keepaspect 1
prescale 1
waitvsync 1
syncrefresh 1
menu 0
#
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
hwstretch 1
#
# DIRECT3D-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
filter 1
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_ini_read 0
hlsl_ini_write 0
hlslini %g
hlsl_prescale_x 6
hlsl_prescale_y 6
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 2048
hlsl_snap_height 1536
shadow_mask_alpha 0.07
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 330
shadow_mask_y_count 180
shadow_mask_usize 0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize 0.109375
curvature 0.000000
pincushion 0.000000
scanline_alpha 0.600000
scanline_size 1.000000
scanline_height 1.000000
scanline_bright_scale 1.500000
scanline_bright_offset 0.600000
scanline_jitter 0.000000
defocus 1.750000,1.750000
converge_x -0.400000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y -0.700000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio 1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio 0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio 0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation 1.050000
offset 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale 1.020000,1.020000,1.020000
power 1.300000,1.300000,1.300000
floor 0.020000,0.020000,0.020000
phosphor_life 0.6500000,0.6500000,0.6500000
#
# NTSC POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.597545
yiq_a 0.500000
yiq_b 0.500000
yiq_o 0.000000
yiq_p 1.000000
yiq_n 1.000000
yiq_y 6.000000
yiq_i 1.200000
yiq_q 0.600000
yiq_scan_time 52.599998
yiq_phase_count 2
#
# VECTOR POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_length_scale 0.8
vector_length_ratio 500.0
#
# BLOOM POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_bloom_scale 0.3
raster_bloom_scale 0.16
bloom_lvl0_weight 1.0
bloom_lvl1_weight 0.21
bloom_lvl2_weight 0.19
bloom_lvl3_weight 0.17
bloom_lvl4_weight 0.15
bloom_lvl5_weight 0.14
bloom_lvl6_weight 0.13
bloom_lvl7_weight 0.12
bloom_lvl8_weight 0.11
bloom_lvl9_weight 0.10
bloom_lvl10_weight 0.09
#
# PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen auto
aspect auto
resolution auto
view auto
screen0 auto
aspect0 auto
resolution0 auto
view0 auto
screen1 auto
aspect1 auto
resolution1 auto
view1 auto
screen2 auto
aspect2 auto
resolution2 auto
view2 auto
screen3 auto
aspect3 auto
resolution3 auto
view3 auto
#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer 1
switchres 0
full_screen_brightness 1.0
full_screen_contrast 1.0
full_screen_gamma 1.0
#
# WINDOWS SOUND OPTIONS
#
audio_latency 2
#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
dual_lightgun 0
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#310255 - 06/14/13 10:22 AM
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> I appreciate the reports, but HLSL is unlikely to get any further work done to it.
> Just turn it off for raster games if you can't get the image you'd like.
Is HLSL development dead?
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Re: No problem here.
[Re: Dullaron]
#310260 - 06/14/13 01:09 PM
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>
> This is the settings that I use on my wide screen. 1920x1080
HOLY CRAP!!!
Just tried those settings and my GPU usage went from around 20% on my settings to 90% with yours and stays there!!.
What kind of devil sauce are you using..
Does look a bit better, but still blurrier than MAME 148.
Thanks anyway for the help..
I'll just have to keep tinkering with it and hopefully my eyes will just adjust to the new look.
I know you can always run MAME without HLSL but thats like saying you can always have a hotdog without ketchup or mustard..it's just not the same.
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Re: No problem here.
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310262 - 06/14/13 02:36 PM
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..okay, the penny has finally dropped as to what's going on now.
Pre-scale is the key to compensating for the changes, where as before I'd leave it at 1, it now needs to be put up to at least 4, preferably 6.
Basically, GPU requirements have shot through the roof with this new HLSL code.
My Radeon 4850 can cope with a setting of 6 on 2D titles like Ghouls Ghosts pushing 90% of GPU power, but anything 3D, like Tekken, Ridge Racer, the frame rate drops by 50% or more and so has to be dropped to a pre-scale of 2.
Lol, as always with MAME, there comes a time when you just have to throw more money at it, and for me that day has finally arrived..
I think you'll need a Radeon 6850 or Nvidia 560, or something with 120GB or more of bandwidth for full on HLSL image quality.
Edited by Ziggy100 (06/14/13 02:41 PM)
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Re: No problem here.
[Re: Ziggy100]
#310265 - 06/14/13 03:28 PM
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..give it enough pre-scale with a few other tweaks, and it looks pretty fucking lush:
Tekken 3. Interlace Mode On, Pre-scale 2,2:
Luckily games with Interlace modes only need a pre-scale of 2 because of the higher internal resolution, otherwise I'd need a prescale of 4,4, which is just too much for my 4850 GPU..:(
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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> ..give it enough pre-scale with a few other tweaks, and it looks pretty fucking lush:
>
>
> Tekken 3. Interlace Mode On, Pre-scale 2,2:
>
>
> Luckily games with Interlace modes only need a pre-scale of 2 because of the higher
> internal resolution, otherwise I'd need a prescale of 4,4, which is just too much for
> my 4850 GPU..
You can get the game screen smaller to get some blur effect. Just hit the window box at the top above the game screen. Other wise it looking good the way that you have it.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#315925 - 10/16/13 09:23 AM
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Hi there
After reading this topic,i found it's difficult to sharpen image using code.I want to know is there any third party program for image sharpen?I am not so good at computer,so i need to find easier way to process image.
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To note, I bailed on this....
[Re: Dullaron]
#316212 - 10/20/13 09:41 PM
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because I'm not buying new hardware....until my arcade monitor dies, at least. I just liked the ability to display great looking HSLS-effected games at 1024x768 on it, when playing newer MAME.
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Scifi frauds. SF illuminates.
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| Dullaron |
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No longer using the old settings. Using these now.
[Re: Traso]
#316216 - 10/20/13 11:34 PM
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Code:
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_x 6
hlsl_prescale_y 6
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 2048
hlsl_snap_height 1536
shadow_mask_alpha 0.070000
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 320
shadow_mask_y_count 240
shadow_mask_usize 0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize 0.109375
curvature 0.000000
pincushion 0.000000
scanline_alpha 0.300000
scanline_size 1.000000
scanline_height 1.000000
scanline_bright_scale 1.000000
scanline_bright_offset 1.000000
scanline_jitter 2.000000
defocus 0.000000,0.000000
converge_x 0.200000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x 0.200000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio 1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio 0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio 0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation 1.050000
offset 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale 1.020000,1.020000,1.020000
power 1.300000,1.300000,1.300000
floor 0.020000,0.020000,0.020000
phosphor_life 0.6500000,0.6500000,0.6500000
#
# NTSC POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.597545
yiq_a 0.500000
yiq_b 0.500000
yiq_o 0.000000
yiq_p 1.000000
yiq_n 1.000000
yiq_y 6.000000
yiq_i 1.200000
yiq_q 0.600000
yiq_scan_time 52.599998
yiq_phase_count 2
#
# VECTOR POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_length_scale 0.8
vector_length_ratio 500.0
#
# BLOOM POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_bloom_scale 0.21
raster_bloom_scale 0.10
bloom_lvl0_weight 1.0
bloom_lvl1_weight 0.21
bloom_lvl2_weight 0.19
bloom_lvl3_weight 0.17
bloom_lvl4_weight 0.15
bloom_lvl5_weight 0.14
bloom_lvl6_weight 0.13
bloom_lvl7_weight 0.12
bloom_lvl8_weight 0.11
bloom_lvl9_weight 0.10
bloom_lvl10_weight 0.09
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Traso]
#316239 - 10/22/13 01:11 AM
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Here's my settings if you want to give a try:
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_x 2
hlsl_prescale_y 2
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 1920
hlsl_snap_height 1080
shadow_mask_alpha 0.1
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.187500
shadow_mask_vsize 0.093750
curvature 0.05
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.0
scanline_alpha 0.5
scanline_size 1.0
scanline_height 0.5
scanline_bright_scale 1.0
scanline_bright_offset 0.5
scanline_jitter 0.0
defocus 0.0,0.0
converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio 1.0,0.0,0.0
grn_ratio 0.0,1.0,0.0
blu_ratio 0.0,0.0,1.0
saturation 2.0
offset 0.0,0.0,0.0
scale 0.8,0.8,0.8
power 1.2,1.2,1.2
floor 0.05,0.05,0.05
phosphor_life 0.5,0.5,0.5
Me running MK2 in 1080p:
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: kevenz]
#316255 - 10/22/13 11:26 AM
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HOLY SATURATED BLOOM BATMAN!!!!!
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#316274 - 10/22/13 11:04 PM
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Haha, I like the color bleeding and CTR effect I created....when I was young, games used to look like that on my tv in the 80s.
It need ajustment of course but I hate big scan lines like you did in the Ghost n Goblin picture.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: kevenz]
#316275 - 10/22/13 11:40 PM
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Thus, why it's nice that we have so much freedom to adjust them to our likings 
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Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#316281 - 10/23/13 03:02 AM
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I made some change today because I'm bored :
MK2:
Ghouls:
What do you think ? it's less bloomy imo but maybe a bit blurry.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: kevenz]
#316317 - 10/24/13 04:08 AM
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Looks like you're running one of those old Super Eagle 2D filters from back in the ZSNES days or something. Way too blurry.
I suggest disabling HLSL altogether, and running SweetFX, at least until they sort out the problems. SFX has a respectable sharpen filter.
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Re: No longer using the old settings. Using these now.
[Re: Dullaron]
#316672 - 11/01/13 05:17 PM
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Dullaron's settings made me a believer (still using v.146).
Thanks for posting it.
I did cut out the phosphor life to get rid of blur.
phosphor_life 0.0500000,0.0500000,0.0500000
A prescale of 6 makes some of the old games like Frogger and Popeye run at 50% on my system.
Is there a reason for that other than just a lack of horsepower?
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| Sune |
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Connected
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Re: No longer using the old settings. Using these now.
[Re: BadMouth]
#316679 - 11/01/13 06:31 PM
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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> Dullaron's settings made me a believer (still using v.146).
> Thanks for posting it.
>
> I did cut out the phosphor life to get rid of blur.
> phosphor_life 0.0500000,0.0500000,0.0500000
>
> A prescale of 6 makes some of the old games like Frogger and Popeye run at 50% on my
> system.
> Is there a reason for that other than just a lack of horsepower?
Blur is burning effect. But yea turn it down will get rid of the effect. The way I have it will make the moving leave a light color trail behind. Most games doesn't do this. But the Centipede and some others does this. Even Galaga stars leave trails.
Anything past 4 will make your computer start lagging and slow down. Forcing too much with a 6 on your end that I use.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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W11 Home 64-bit + Nobara OS / AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59 GHz / RAM 64 GB
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Lower the setting down to this. Look much better now.
phosphor_life 0.550000,0.550000,0.550000
Showing here it is gone. I think 65 is over doing.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Re: No longer using the old settings. Using these now.
[Re: Sune]
#316687 - 11/01/13 07:56 PM
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Ok, I see per R.Belmont's comments in that thread that PREscale is extra work for the CPU, not GPU.
Looking up the specific games that slowed down, they all had discrete sound stuff added, so are probably more demanding on the processor than other games from the same era.
After getting my feet wet with Dullaron's settings, I'm starting to better understand how to set things up based on the original resolution.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328016 - 07/10/14 03:34 PM
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> Looks like you're running one of those old Super Eagle 2D filters from back in the
> ZSNES days or something. Way too blurry.
>
> I suggest disabling HLSL altogether, and running SweetFX, at least until they sort
> out the problems. SFX has a respectable sharpen filter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Boy do I feel like an idiot for posting this 
I'm back on MAME in a big way and after failing to achieve satisfactory results in SweetFX with regards to its scanline and CRT effect options, I decided to give HLSL one more try. After much ongoing fiddling and messing around, I've discovered just how flexible HLSL is.
I've finally obtained the fantastic scanline effects and clarity I've been searching for, and just about every game I've thrown at it looks phenomenal! Samurai Shodown 2 looks fucking bonkers. SF Alpha 2 looks sublime. Super Punch Out SNES looks off the freakin' chain.
The key to sharpness is a combination of things but pre-scale certainly plays a big part of it. I have copied a few of the settings mentioned in this thread and they have helped out a lot. I am true believer in HLSL and have no doubt it kicks the shit out of SweetFx's CRT effects.
I'm still using SweetFX though because believe it or not, it does have useful things in it that enhances the picture. The Luma Sharpness effect helps sharpen your mame games even more with just the right subtle touch. HDR helps with the picture's contrast.
Anyway keep this thread alive guys! It's chock full of good suggestions and I'd like to see what settings you guys are using these days, since mame's been through a bunch of revisions.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dadriell]
#328068 - 07/11/14 07:54 AM
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> Try to increase power values a bit. That'll make colors a bit darker and will reduce
> blooming effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just wanna say this was a very good tip! Thanks Daniel
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328071 - 07/11/14 11:07 AM
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Made a couple more small adjustments to the in-game gamma and gamma power settings and all I can say is GOD DAYUM!!!! Samurai Shodown 1 looks STUPID!!! I mean it simply looks out-fucking-rageous! It looks perfect.....colors, scanlines, contrast, scanline jitter, color bleed, everything! And not a hint of the dreaded HLSL blurriness in sight!
I'm literally playing on a Wells Gardner CRT monitor....at least that's what I keep thinking, when in reality it's just a plain old BenQ W6000 DLP front projector. I have to give my pj some props though, since it was rated high in picture sharpness and contrast when it first came out a few years back. The BenQ W6000 packs quite a punch even at a few years old. You can probably pick one up these days for around $600. Well worth it to obtain a CRT-like picture at 110",
Anyway more tweaks and updates to come. My hats off to the HLSL creator. Guy's got some serious talent. 
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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> Made a couple more small adjustments to the in-game gamma and gamma power settings
> and all I can say is GOD DAYUM!!!! Samurai Shodown 1 looks STUPID!!! I mean it simply
> looks out-fucking-rageous! It looks perfect.....colors, scanlines, contrast, scanline
> jitter, color bleed, everything! And not a hint of the dreaded HLSL blurriness in
> sight!
>
> I'm literally playing on a Wells Gardner CRT monitor....at least that's what I keep
> thinking, when in reality it's just a plain old BenQ W6000 DLP front projector. I
> have to give my pj some props though, since it was rated high in picture sharpness
> and contrast when it first came out a few years back. The BenQ W6000 packs quite a
> punch even at a few years old. You can probably pick one up these days for around
> $600. Well worth it to obtain a CRT-like picture at 110",
>
> Anyway more tweaks and updates to come. My hats off to the HLSL creator. Guy's got
> some serious talent.
I know that the GLSL is missing all those cool effects but the HLSL is missing just the CRT boarder shape and size effect. Don't forget the turning and tilt effect too. Someday this CRT boarder shape and size effect will get added I hope on the HLSL. Maybe the turning and tilt effect get added as well. In the future there probably will be more effect options added. I won't say that the GLSL won't get anymore than what it already have.
Who know that the GLSL/HLSL get connected together. The ultimate graphics. Keep dreaming. 
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dullaron]
#328083 - 07/11/14 05:37 PM
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> I know that the GLSL is missing all those cool effects but the HLSL is missing just
> the CRT boarder shape and size effect. Don't forget the turning and tilt effect too.
> Someday this CRT boarder shape and size effect will get added I hope on the HLSL.
> Maybe the turning and tilt effect get added as well. In the future there probably
> will be more effect options added. I won't say that the GLSL won't get anymore than
> what it already have.
>
> Who know that the GLSL/HLSL get connected together. The ultimate graphics. Keep
> dreaming.
People have already added rounded corners and tilting to HLSL. You just need to replace an HLSL file, Post.fx if I remember correctly. Granted it's not "from the factory," but it can be done rather easily.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: lamprey]
#328096 - 07/11/14 09:18 PM
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> > I know that the GLSL is missing all those cool effects but the HLSL is missing just
> > the CRT boarder shape and size effect. Don't forget the turning and tilt effect
> too.
> > Someday this CRT boarder shape and size effect will get added I hope on the HLSL.
> > Maybe the turning and tilt effect get added as well. In the future there probably
> > will be more effect options added. I won't say that the GLSL won't get anymore than
> > what it already have.
> >
> > Who know that the GLSL/HLSL get connected together. The ultimate graphics. Keep
> > dreaming.
>
> People have already added rounded corners and tilting to HLSL. You just need to
> replace an HLSL file, Post.fx if I remember correctly. Granted it's not "from the
> factory," but it can be done rather easily.
Found it.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=113151.0
There is a problem. Too blocky. Doesn't line up right. Check out BombJack snapshots there. The one with the white lines. You will see the lines aren't smooth out. GLSL does it better.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dullaron]
#328100 - 07/11/14 10:12 PM
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> Found it.
>
> http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=113151.0
>
> There is a problem. Too blocky. Doesn't line up right. Check out BombJack snapshots
> there. The one with the white lines. You will see the lines aren't smooth out. GLSL
> does it better.
Do you mean the edges? Yeah, they aren't as smooth as the GLSL. If you mean the "pixels" then I think it is because of the mask. Which is what I'm trying to find a shader for SDLMame.
Both versions have their pros and cons. So, I'll continue to play with both. Hopefully, I can overcome some of the issues I'm having with SDLMame, otherwise I'll have to scrap it.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: lamprey]
#328107 - 07/12/14 12:57 AM
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What the heck is GLSL? First time I'm hearing about it. Link?
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328120 - 07/12/14 12:37 PM
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#328135 - 07/13/14 08:58 AM
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OK Guys here's the deal.....
I've been messing around with the HLSL prescale X and Y settings and to my surprise, I discovered I can actually turn it up all to 14...yes FOURTEEN....before it boots into the game showing some strange black and white screen that's off to an angle. People in this thread were talking about hitting performance limitations at prescale x and y 6, so how in the world am I able to go all the way up to 14??? My CPU is not that great...an Intel 950. My GPU is an Nvidia Geforce 680 4GB. Certainly a fairly old card by today's standards. So what's going on here?
Is it because I have the MAME video pre-scale option set to 0? It's funny because if I turn that up to like 2 or 3, my screen becomes extremely blurry on the right side while sharp on the left. Is there ANY benefit to setting MAME's video prescale option to anything other than 0, if you've got your HLSL prescale X and Y set to 6 or above? Does the MAME Video prescale option alter or affect the way HLSL's prescale option works?
Please let me because I'm fairly puzzled at the moment.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: lamprey]
#328138 - 07/13/14 09:35 AM
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> Hopefully, I can overcome some of the issues I'm having with SDLMame, otherwise I'll
> have to scrap it.
Are you talking about the set ups? Here are examples. Once you see what I'm talking about then you get it right away.
overscan = vec2(1.0,1.0); #(Normal zoom.)
overscan = vec2(0.98,0.98); #(Zoom out. Screen shrink a little.) (This help get the scores and other things out under or touching the curved corners.)
R = 2.0; #(Curved screen.)
R = 10.5; #(Box screen.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(0.0,0.0); #(gollygho no screen tilt.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(0.0,-0.05); #(aburner2 screen tilt.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(-0.60,0.0); #(dkong screen tilt.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(0.0,-0.60); #(popeye screen tilt.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(-0.15,0.0); #(digdug screen tilt.)
const vec2 angle = vec2(0.0,-0.15); #(pong screen tilt.) (yellow bezel.)
cornersize = 0.001; #(Pointed corners.)
cornersize = 0.003; #(Small curved corners.)
cornersize = 0.03; #(Big curved corners.)
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dullaron]
#328143 - 07/13/14 08:29 PM
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> > Hopefully, I can overcome some of the issues I'm having with SDLMame, otherwise
> I'll
> > have to scrap it.
>
> Are you talking about the set ups?
Good stuff with those presets!
But, no, the main issue I'm having right now is that the cursor appears in the center of the screen when launching a game and won't go away until the mouse is moved. I'm not sure if this is a setting I'm missing. However, I've tried several ini settings as well as command line options and nothing is working.
I also get "poping" audio in some game, like DKong.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: lamprey]
#328150 - 07/14/14 12:13 AM
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> > > Hopefully, I can overcome some of the issues I'm having with SDLMame, otherwise
> > I'll
> > > have to scrap it.
> >
> > Are you talking about the set ups?
>
> Good stuff with those presets!
>
> But, no, the main issue I'm having right now is that the cursor appears in the center
> of the screen when launching a game and won't go away until the mouse is moved. I'm
> not sure if this is a setting I'm missing. However, I've tried several ini settings
> as well as command line options and nothing is working.
>
> I also get "poping" audio in some game, like DKong.
So far the popping sounds that I found are the dkong3 and pong is putting out. Hit F11 get the skip screen to show up. Keep hitting the F9 until the popping sounds go away. Or just turn off the waitvsync because that dkong or any of those doesn't put out tearing. Don't use the syncrefresh at all anyway. I do know it won't work on pong because it putting out more power or some bull crap. pong sounds can't be fix for some reason. Doesn't happen on the mame.exe and mame64.exe because the only thing that fix that is the triplebuffer 1 which the sdlmame.exe and sdlmame64.exe doesn't have.
Just pointing out that the triplebuffer 1 only needed on the non-sdl builds. Don't worry about the rest of the settings. triplebuffer is the best.
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Re: No problem here.
[Re: Ziggy100]
#328154 - 07/14/14 04:34 AM
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Quote:
I think you'll need a Radeon 6850 or Nvidia 560, or something with 120GB or more of bandwidth for full on HLSL image quality.
LOL. Well at least it looks good 
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328164 - 07/15/14 12:35 AM
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> OK Guys here's the deal.....
>
> I've been messing around with the HLSL prescale X and Y settings and to my surprise,
> I discovered I can actually turn it up all to 14...yes FOURTEEN....before it boots
> into the game showing some strange black and white screen that's off to an angle.
> People in this thread were talking about hitting performance limitations at prescale
> x and y 6, so how in the world am I able to go all the way up to 14??? My CPU is not
> that great...an Intel 950. My GPU is an Nvidia Geforce 680 4GB. Certainly a fairly
> old card by today's standards. So what's going on here?
>
> Is it because I have the MAME video pre-scale option set to 0? It's funny because if
> I turn that up to like 2 or 3, my screen becomes extremely blurry on the right side
> while sharp on the left. Is there ANY benefit to setting MAME's video prescale option
> to anything other than 0, if you've got your HLSL prescale X and Y set to 6 or above?
> Does the MAME Video prescale option alter or affect the way HLSL's prescale option
> works?
>
> Please let me because I'm fairly puzzled at the moment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can any of you guys address this? Why can I turn HLSL all the way up to 14 while you guys can't? Is my graphics card special?
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328181 - 07/15/14 02:14 PM
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Quote:
> Can any of you guys address this? Why can I turn HLSL all the way up to 14 while you
> guys can't? Is my graphics card special?
It's not special, it's just math..
Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by your chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
HLSL relies on the bandwidth of your GPU and the 680 has 192GB whilst my old Radeon 4850 (now retired for a Nvidia 760 also with 192GB) which struggled with anything over a prescale of 6 had just 60GB of bandwidth, less than a third of what you have with your 680, hence being able to go up to x14.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Ziggy100]
#328202 - 07/15/14 10:20 PM
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> Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by your
> chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
If it's working properly turning it above where it makes a bigger prescaled image than your output resolution shouldn't make any further difference, it's just slowing down your system at that point.
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| Dullaron |
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Diablo III - Dunard #1884
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#328203 - 07/15/14 10:45 PM
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> > Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by your
> > chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
>
> If it's working properly turning it above where it makes a bigger prescaled image
> than your output resolution shouldn't make any further difference, it's just slowing
> down your system at that point.
Can it burn up the graphics card chip at that point as well?
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#328219 - 07/16/14 03:08 AM
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Ziggy wrote:
Quote:
> Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by your
> chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
>
> HLSL relies on the bandwidth of your GPU and the 680 has 192GB whilst my old Radeon
> 4850 (now retired for a Nvidia 760 also with 192GB) which struggled with anything
> over a prescale of 6 had just 60GB of bandwidth, less than a third of what you have
> with your 680, hence being able to go up to x14.
R.Belmont wrote:
Quote:
>
> If it's working properly turning it above where it makes a bigger prescaled image
> than your output resolution shouldn't make any further difference, it's just slowing
> down your system at that point.
Thank you both gentlemen. Much appreciate the response. Guess the nvidia 6xx series and the 7xx series are the beasts to be reckoned with when it comes to HLSL glad to know there have been improvements in this area.
I still can't figure out why using a video prescale settings of 3 causes the picture to look blurry on the right half of the screen. Weird.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dullaron]
#328247 - 07/16/14 05:37 PM
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> > > Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by
> your
> > > chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
> >
> > If it's working properly turning it above where it makes a bigger prescaled image
> > than your output resolution shouldn't make any further difference, it's just
> slowing
> > down your system at that point.
>
> Can it burn up the graphics card chip at that point as well?
No, it's just generating excess PCIe bus traffic.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Dullaron]
#328512 - 07/23/14 06:32 PM
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> So far the popping sounds that I found are the dkong3 and pong is putting out. Hit
> F11 get the skip screen to show up. Keep hitting the F9 until the popping sounds go
> away. Or just turn off the waitvsync because that dkong or any of those doesn't put
> out tearing. Don't use the syncrefresh at all anyway. I do know it won't work on pong
> because it putting out more power or some bull crap. pong sounds can't be fix for
> some reason. Doesn't happen on the mame.exe and mame64.exe because the only thing
> that fix that is the triplebuffer 1 which the sdlmame.exe and sdlmame64.exe doesn't
> have.
>
> Just pointing out that the triplebuffer 1 only needed on the non-sdl builds. Don't
> worry about the rest of the settings. triplebuffer is the best.
I tried using the skip function and I can go from 0-10 and back again and it doesn't seem to do anything, which is a bummer. Also, I can't use triple buffer with mame as I'm running a 4k display and it can't create the D3D object/surface or something at that resolution. It might be a video memory limit on my card. Also, I've turned off all the syncing flags as I can only run at 30hz and mame is not a fan of trying to sync to that. But, unfortunately, that didn't/doesn't help with the sound popping either.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#328969 - 07/31/14 10:44 AM
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Quote:
> > Prescale is simply multiplying the X,Y resolution of the game your running by your
> > chosen amount and then down samples the image to the resolution of your screen.
>
> If it's working properly turning it above where it makes a bigger prescaled image
> than your output resolution shouldn't make any further difference, it's just slowing
> down your system at that point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So let me see if I can get this straight.....
Basically, if the game I'm running has a default resolution of 320x240(ie most really old 80's games) and I set the HLSL Pre-scale to 10, MAME will output the image to a resolution of 3200x2400, but since my default display is 1920x1080, it will downscale it to 1920x1080?
If yes to the above, has there any concrete tests that proves there is any extra sharpness or clarity in the picture as a result of the downscaling?
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328979 - 07/31/14 05:05 PM
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Is this what you are looking for? The first post on this page shows a comparison (of scan lines) at different scaling factors:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45026&start=360
Certain games seem to exhibit better sharpness/clarity with higher scaling. You can also try it yourself on a game like Toobin.
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Re: How to sharpen the image?
[Re: lamprey]
#328982 - 07/31/14 05:40 PM
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> Is this what you are looking for? The first post on this page shows a comparison (of
> scan lines) at different scaling factors:
> http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45026&start=360
>
> Certain games seem to exhibit better sharpness/clarity with higher scaling. You can
> also try it yourself on a game like Toobin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
thanks Lampren...a very VERY interesting thread for sure!
Edited by Outrun2006 (07/31/14 05:40 PM)
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Dude, 320x240 didn't start happening till '86 or so..... (nt)
[Re: Outrun2006]
#328999 - 08/01/14 12:43 AM
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Re: Dude, 320x240 didn't start happening till '86 or so..... (nt)
[Re: Traso]
#329011 - 08/01/14 04:01 AM
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You reply to the wrong thread? If not, what point are you trying to make?
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Dude, 320x240 didn't start happening till '86 or so..... (nt)
[Re: lamprey]
#329014 - 08/01/14 05:08 AM
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> You reply to the wrong thread? If not, what point are you trying to make?
Outrun2006 wrote above:
Quote:
Basically, if the game I'm running has a default resolution of 320x240(ie most really old 80's games)
He's nitpicking.
- Stiletto
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