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Re: Special artwork!
#277975 - 03/04/12 08:09 AM
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You are a brilliant genius!
I must say without a doubt your special artwork is THE BEST I've ever seen! This is what in-game artwork is supposed to be! Most of the "Official Mame Artwork" is pure junk in my opinion! There are a few examples I would consider praiseworthy. After Burner II, and Kasino '89, are two excellent examples I can think of. Most "official artwork" however, is nothing more than a boring bezel!
Yes I know, some people will whine about not having "the right kind of monitor", or "not having a big enough monitor", but I say get a bigger monitor!
Mame artwork should emulate the visual arcade experience, and I'd say you did one hell of a job! Your artwork almost gives me a sense of playing on an actual arcade cab!
I don't care what anybody says, your artwork SHOULD be in the official artwork section!
Great job!!
I hope to see more of your work in the future! More Mortal Kombat and maybe a Battlezone?
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EDIT by Mr. Do: This was originally a reply to this thread:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1
Moved to it's own thread, as it's cluttering up Antolin's work.
Edited by Mr. Do (03/04/12 08:22 AM)
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#277976 - 03/02/12 11:48 AM
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: Nightvoice]
#277980 - 03/02/12 03:16 PM
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That's my opinion on the matter. I can't help it if you or anyone doesn't like it. I do believe this is a public forum, and I do believe I'm well within my rights to express my opinions. I'm not here to win a popularity contest.
I do feel most of the "body" of artwork IS junk. Why you may ask? Much of this so-called "artwork" in MOST cases is nothing more than a "scanned bezel" “marquee” or “instruction card”. The only “artwork” I can see being involved consists of photoshop "touch up work" from a scanned image. While all that may take time and effort, a bezel in and of itself is hardly what I would consider worthy Mame artwork. That is not to say those efforts are not appreciated. Digitally restoring old or obscure bezels, instruction cards, marquee etc is to be commended!
Antolin’s artwork in my opinion is what Mame artwork should be. He has put together ALL the graphic elements in such a way as to give people an immersive "arcade like" gaming experience.
It’s also my opinion Antolin’s artwork will most likely never be apart of the “official” Mame artwork because of an old school mindset as to what is considered Mame artwork.
People don’t like change, and I believe Antolin’s ideas and efforts will be put in the “maybe" closet and forgotten.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#277981 - 03/02/12 03:16 PM
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> I must say without a doubt your special artwork is THE BEST I've ever seen! This is > what in-game artwork is supposed to be! Most of the "Official Mame Artwork" is pure > junk in my opinion!
Take it easy fellow N.I.B, you are a complete noob here! All the artwork used by Antolin to create "your perfect special MAME artwork experience" came from Mr.DO! and a lot of other dedicated contributors. So, if you want to give your opinion about something, think 10 times about it before start talking bull%#@t!
And regarding that Mortal Kombat/Battlezone, WE MAYBE think about it. Or do it yourself and give your share of contribution, instead of useless opinions
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#277982 - 03/02/12 03:17 PM
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N.I.B, just read my post above about your 'opinions'...
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: R.Coltrane]
#277983 - 03/02/12 03:25 PM
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I'm a noob with an opinion. No one said you had to like it.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#277986 - 03/02/12 04:25 PM
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> I'm a noob with an opinion. No one said you had to like it.
I don't need to like your opinion, just be respectful next time! Think about people who really do something, instead of just talking.
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem and do something."
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Mr. Do![Administrator Administrator](//www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/images/adm.gif) |
MAME Art Editor
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 4887
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Loc: California
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Send PM
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#277989 - 03/02/12 05:39 PM
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> That's my opinion on the matter. I can't help it if you or anyone doesn't like it. I > do believe this is a public forum, and I do believe I'm well within my rights to > express my opinions. I'm not here to win a popularity contest.
Yup... totally entitled to your opinion.
> I do feel most of the "body" of artwork IS junk. Why you may ask? Much of this > so-called "artwork" in MOST cases is nothing more than a "scanned bezel" “marquee” or > “instruction card”. The only “artwork” I can see being involved consists of photoshop > "touch up work" from a scanned image. While all that may take time and effort, a > bezel in and of itself is hardly what I would consider worthy Mame artwork. That is > not to say those efforts are not appreciated. Digitally restoring old or obscure > bezels, instruction cards, marquee etc is to be commended!
This part is funny. The body of artwork is junk, yet the effort is to be commended.
Now to correct you on one thing... 90%+ of what is in MAME Artwork is based on scanned material. This is for accuracy (remember that MAME's end goal is accuracy, right?).
Some of the final products are "touch up work." But many others are complete re-do's, yet based on the original scan. Some of those are in Photoshop, some traced using Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw.
> Antolin’s artwork in my opinion is what Mame artwork should be. He has put together > ALL the graphic elements in such a way as to give people an immersive "arcade like" > gaming experience.
And here's your stumbling block; your opinion of what it should be, and someone else's opinion of what it should be could vary greatly. You like the whole immersion, others would prefer to see just the bezel artwork, or just the instruction cards. Some would prefer to have none of that, except for backdrop artwork. And then there's even others that would like to display the marquee or control panel on a separate monitor.
Which one's right? All of them? None of them? See more below.
> It’s also my opinion Antolin’s artwork will most likely never be apart of the > “official” Mame artwork because of an old school mindset as to what is considered > Mame artwork.
Well, no, that's not why it won't be official, I'll get more into that below.
Oldschool mindset? Sorry, not on my end. If you'd been keeping up, you'd see things are moving in the direction you would actually like to see things end up. For one, I added a small code change to MAME last year that added two additional layers in the artwork process for for marquees and control panels. Prior to that, the only way to add additional pieces of artwork was an "all or nothing" shot; if a game had all those different elements on the screen, there was no way to turn individual parts off.
And if you've looked at recent updates, you'd see that we've been starting to add in those missing pieces. They aren't "perfect," so to speak, as looking like the whole front of the arcade cabinet, t-molding and all, but at least now the pieces are starting to come together. I've also got people working on graphics for buttons and joysticks, so those can be added in. And when they are, you'll actually see the buttons and sticks move, too.
When Antolin first posted here, the first thought in my head was "Damn! That's cool." Five minutes later, I had already thought of a way to implement that "properly" in multiple layers, using existing artwork (the only "extra work" part being the angle of the control panel). If (when) I do it, I'm gonna do it properly, using the right tools. Unfortunately, things take time, so be patient.
> People don’t like change, and I believe Antolin’s ideas and efforts will be put in > the “maybe" closet > and forgotten.
Whether his efforts are lost and forgotten is completely up to him. There's no reason he can't create a webpage and put his artwork on it for all to see, to never be lost. Hell, Stuart Campbell originally did this a long time ago - http://www.excellentcontent.com/xbart/cb.htm - using low-res graphics and such, but it was done.
As for these not being added to "official" artwork, there is the reason I already stated (putting all elements in one PNG file, instead of individual layers), and here are a few more reasons:
- Mr. Do uses the old version of the bezel, which is faded and not lined up correctly, with a Taito conversion control panel (these wouldn't have been mixed together in a real cabinet).
- Donkey Kong 3 - colors are all wrong.
- Cabal - homebrew bezel
- Double Dragon - faded bezel with wrong colors (to this day, I can't understand why people think the dragons are actually blue).
- Galaga - marquee is wrong
- Golden Axe - homebrew bezel
- Burgertime - DECO cassette marquee with dedicated bezel and control panel
- Act-Fancer - he says so right in his post for it
So I like it; it's a cool idea, and it'll eventually be done right. But I'm not going to just start throwing things together inaccurately just because the look cool. There is an actual thought process behind everything that goes into this project.
So there, you got the attention you were looking for by stating your controversial opinion, and now you know the other side of the story. Hopefully, you can respect my opinion as much.
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RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: R.Coltrane]
#277991 - 03/02/12 06:02 PM
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So what you're telling is this: I don't have a right to express my personal opinions on this public Mame artwork forum for the simple fact I don't produce Mame artwork? Wow really? I'm sorry, I must have missed that RULE somewhere when I registered.
Look, even though I'm not one of the "contributing artwork members" I'm still one of the MANY people who download YOUR artwork. I would think people like you who do "contribute" artwork would be slightly interested in hearing from the people who actually download and use your artwork! You and other "artwork contributors" might learn a thing or two and gain a better perspective.
Next issue: So if I'm not part of the solution I'm a part of the problem? Listen, I'll be turning 40 in May. I’m an old geezer as far as teens and 20-somethings are concerned. I've probably heard every cheesy cliché known to exist, with that said I don't need a lecture on one of "life lessons".
You want me to give a solution? Okay, make Antolin's ideas a reality and allow his "type" of artwork to be "official artwork".
With regards to the people who have contributed bezels, backdrops, overlays, marquees, control panels, instruction cards etc…
I thank you ALL!
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: Mr. Do]
#277994 - 03/02/12 06:22 PM
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Mr. Do
I respect you and what you have done. My opinions were not meant to piss people off. I'm not a great writer or talker. I like to cut to the chase.
"This part is funny. The body of artwork is junk, yet the effort is to be commended."
You misunderstood what I meant. I applaud the efforts to restore marquees, bezels and the like. Why, because it allows for the creation of future Mame artwork. That is not to say I like most of the "current" artwork. I hope I cleared that up?
Thank you for being polite and civil. I really have nothing more to say except I look forward to seeing your future plans come to life.
Best Regards, N.I.B.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#278005 - 03/02/12 09:04 PM
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> So what you're telling is this: I don't have a right to express my personal opinions > on this public Mame artwork forum for the simple fact I don't produce Mame artwork? > Wow really? I'm sorry, I must have missed that RULE somewhere when I registered.
I didn't say that. I just told you with another words that you should be more polite. You sounded rude with that ""Official Mame Artwork" is pure junk in my opinion!" C'mon, it was your first post here and you say that this is an opinion?? Sounds more like a destructive criticism than a constructive opinion.
> Look, even though I'm not one of the "contributing artwork members" I'm still one of > the MANY people who download YOUR artwork. I would think people like you who do > "contribute" artwork would be slightly interested in hearing from the people who > actually download and use your artwork! You and other "artwork contributors" might > learn a thing or two and gain a better perspective.
I know you and other people download the contents from this and other sites. Leechers are everywhere. And these artwork are not MINE, they are publically available for everyone, even one thing or another I did. Not much (yet) but is still something and I will keep contributing with everything I can. And I do it because I like to do, like everybody else in this forum. Maybe you need to learn something before being misunderstood in your very first post. > Next issue: So if I'm not part of the solution I'm a part of the problem? Listen, > I'll be turning 40 in May. I’m an old geezer as far as teens and 20-somethings are > concerned. I've probably heard every cheesy cliché known to exist, with that said I > don't need a lecture on one of "life lessons".
Really? From your first post, I tought you were a 15-years old kid. Again, since that was your very 1st post, you should be careful trying to be more polite.
> You want me to give a solution? Okay, make Antolin's ideas a reality and allow his > "type" of artwork to be "official artwork".
This is his job, not mine. If he wants to go further with it, kudos to him. If not, it's his decision. I won't beg him to continue with his work if he decides to stop doing it. Will be missed, though.
> With regards to the people who have contributed bezels, backdrops, overlays, > marquees, control panels, instruction cards etc… > > I thank you ALL!
Thanks. Now you are being polite. Keep in that way.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: R.Coltrane]
#278031 - 03/03/12 12:05 PM
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> I know you and other people download the contents from this AND OTHER SITES. Leechers are everywhere.
> I will keep contributing with everything I can. And I do it because I like to do
You SEEM to make the assumption I'm ONLY a "leecher" who ONLY takes and never gives.
Just so you know, I HAVE contributed to the emulation community. About a month or so ago I submitted Apple-1 cassette wave files to MESS.org. http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=76687#Post76687
Here is my newest release: http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=77603#Post77603
Mirror: http://www.archive.org/details/Apple1Cassettes
If you don't know what Apple-1 cassette wave files are, I'll tell you. They are software programs for the MESS Apple-1 emulator. From what I understand Apple-1 wave files for MESS never even existed before I came along.
Not trying to bore you with details, but my Apple-1 .wav files took a great deal of time and research to create because I had to learn how to convert binary hex code into a compatible .wav file suitable enough for the MESS Apple-1 emulator.
Because of my efforts, the people at MESS.org have fully working Apple-1 software programs and games anyone can use for the MESS Apple-1 emulator.
Conclusion: Even though I don’t “contribute” Mame artwork, I’m hardly a “Leecher” as you strongly like to imply. I do in fact contribute to the emulation community… just in my own way.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#278051 - 03/03/12 08:43 PM
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> Just so you know, I HAVE contributed to the emulation community. About a month or so > ago I submitted Apple-1 cassette wave files to MESS.org. > http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=76687#Post76687 > > Here is my newest release: > http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=77603#Post77603 > > Mirror: http://www.archive.org/details/Apple1Cassettes > > If you don't know what Apple-1 cassette wave files are, I'll tell you. They are > software programs for the MESS Apple-1 emulator. From what I understand Apple-1 wave > files for MESS never even existed before I came along. > > Not trying to bore you with details, but my Apple-1 .wav files took a great deal of > time and research to create because I had to learn how to convert binary hex code > into a compatible .wav file suitable enough for the MESS Apple-1 emulator. > > Because of my efforts, the people at MESS.org have fully working Apple-1 software > programs and games anyone can use for the MESS Apple-1 emulator. > > Conclusion: Even though I don’t “contribute” Mame artwork, I’m hardly a “Leecher” as > you strongly like to imply. I do in fact contribute to the emulation community… just > in my own way.
Very nice. Now you are being kind and respectful. I know MESS pretty well BTW. As a comparison, I won't tell you that Apple-1 driver is crap and it should be discarded because we have better Apple II drivers. Would you like to hear that? I don't think so. That's why people became angry with your first post, that sounded harsh and completely unnecessary.
And that's enough for me. Please someone kill this useless topic to save some forum space. Let's move on people.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: R.Coltrane]
#278070 - 03/04/12 12:21 AM
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> Very nice. Now you are being kind and respectful. I know MESS pretty well BTW. As a > comparison, I won't tell you that Apple-1 driver is crap and it should be discarded > because we have better Apple II drivers. Would you like to hear that? I don't think > so. That's why people became angry with your first post, that sounded harsh and > completely unnecessary. > > And that's enough for me. Please someone kill this useless topic to save some forum > space. Let's move on people.
HAHA wow, such hostility! Come down dude. you're going to give yourself an aneurysm.
To be quite honest I could really care less if you were to say, "Apple-1 driver is crap and it should be discarded because we have better Apple II drivers". My feelings wouldn't be hurt in the least. Why you might ask? My goal was not to compete with the Apple II (or any other system for that matter). My goal was simply to see how the Apple-1 computer operated. The way I chose to do that was to create Apple-1 wave files so they could be used with MESS. I accomplished that goal. I then decided to share my Apple-1 software programs with the MESS community so others could see how the A1 operated.
You're so-called comparison is a poor one by the way. A true comparison would be to compare an Apple-1 software program with another Apple-1 program. Even then you would not bruise my ego. I have no emotions vested in antiqued late 1970's software. The only emotional pleasure I got was achieving my initial goal of converting A1 hex dumps into wave files MESS could use.
I'll meet you halfway and agree with you on one thing: I was harsh in my first post. What I said was completely unnecessary. I certainly could have been nicer with my words.
With ALL that said however, it still doesn't change how I feel about most of the MAME artwork. My opinion is... what it is.
Best Regards, N.I.B.
BTW, are we done? Everyone?
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: N.I.B.]
#278079 - 03/04/12 01:45 AM
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Whatever man. This topic is useless anyway and should be removed.
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Re: Special artwork!
[Re: R.Coltrane]
#278109 - 03/04/12 12:43 PM
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> Whatever man. This topic is useless anyway and should be removed.
Well, the fork of the topic you started, of course; the rest of it is perfectly fine to stay.
LN
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"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
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