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Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
#271239 - 12/18/11 01:59 PM
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I first used MAME about 10 years ago, and although I found a few games that worked really well, I was pretty disappointed with the graphics emulation on a lot of them.
I tried a few other emulators around that time (one that comes to mind is "Callus") and found the graphics on games such as, for example, Ghosts'n'Goblins, were far more as I remembered them to be on the original arcade versions.
Having just gotten back into retro gaming, and trying out MAME again, I've had basically the same results: some games are emulated really well (one example: Star Wars), whereas the graphics on a lot of other games look blocky and kind of, well, crappy. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but when I played the original arcade games in the 80s, the graphics were smooth and fair superior to any home computer at that time.
However, the graphics on most of the MAME emulated games look something similar to Commodore 64 games. For example, I've just been playing Outrun on MAME, a game I loved back in the day, but I can't believe the graphics were so blocky like that.
Compare the Kawaks emulator version of a game like Ghouls'n'Ghosts (which seems identical to the original) to the MAME emulation (which has the typical blocky graphics mentioned above) to see exactly what I mean.
I'd just like to know if anyone can explain to me why the graphics on most MAME games are not very good?
Thanks.
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| Naoki |
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: erev]
#271240 - 12/18/11 02:04 PM
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In actual fact, that's the CRT screen's effect on games. They blur images slightly but destroy the pixelated look. MAME is emulating the games accruately to how they displayed boardwise (so connecting an LCD to outrun, it would look as pixelated as mame).
EDIT: If you want this effect, as long as you have a good enough system you can enable HLSL (-hlsl) and mame will try to emulate a CRT monitor.
Edited by Naoki (12/18/11 02:29 PM)
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On a quest for Digital 573 and Dancing Stage EuroMix 2
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: erev]
#271241 - 12/18/11 02:29 PM
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you need to google more about filtering and MAME's HLSL support.
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: Naoki]
#271245 - 12/18/11 03:01 PM
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> In actual fact, that's the CRT screen's effect on games. They blur images slightly
> but destroy the pixelated look. MAME is emulating the games accruately to how they
> displayed boardwise (so connecting an LCD to outrun, it would look as pixelated as
> mame).
>
> EDIT: If you want this effect, as long as you have a good enough system you can
> enable HLSL (-hlsl) and mame will try to emulate a CRT monitor.
Maybe erev is thinking about that awful 1:1 stretch/scanline aspect that early versions of MAME used to be known for - e.g. 384x224 doubled and letterboxed in 800x600 mode (the graphics output being a squashed looking 768x448 in the middle of the screen).
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: Heihachi_73]
#271248 - 12/18/11 04:43 PM
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Well, regardless, erev should be using the latest version of MAME and should have played around with the graphic settings before posting. Also, as suggested, should have read up on how to configure MAME.
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| B2K24 |
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#271268 - 12/18/11 08:33 PM
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> Well, regardless, erev should be using the latest version of MAME and should have
> played around with the graphic settings before posting. Also, as suggested, should
> have read up on how to configure MAME.
If he's coming back to MAME after 10 years then it's OK to post for some input on how to go about things.
Maybe this EZ guide can be of some help.
http://easyemu.mameworld.info/
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: B2K24]
#271273 - 12/18/11 09:18 PM
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"to post for some input on how to go about things" would be him asking "hey, the graphics seem to be poor and pixelated, how could I go about adjusting them to look better?". He asked (in a nutshell) "why are the graphics so poor compared to other emulators? They were poor 10 years ago and are poor now". Not really asking for help or looking for sollutions to a problem. But it is helpful to stear him in the right direction. I just think he could have gone about it differently and tried to help himself find a sollution. But then that's kinda a pet peeve of mine
Edited by Envisaged0ne (12/18/11 09:19 PM)
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: Envisaged0ne]
#271281 - 12/18/11 10:33 PM
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i think he's upset cause mame don't make use of the gpu, so the graphics looks plane compared to the original games running on their respective arcade boards.
btw how can i make use of that HLSL option? i would want to play around with some mame filters...
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: karadaniano]
#271295 - 12/19/11 01:18 AM
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> i think he's upset cause mame don't make use of the gpu, so the graphics looks plane
> compared to the original games running on their respective arcade boards.
What on earth are you talking about? What MAME outputs (bugs in the emulation notwithstanding) will be EXACTLY what the games on the respective arcade boards output. So if you remember it as better, then it's all due to the filtering effects that a CRT compared to an LCD does.
For what it's worth, the way I translated what you said is "I want MAME/emulators to make the games look BETTER than they did on the originals by using my 3D GPU", which isn't happening, buddy. We're not ePSXe.
> btw how can i make use of that HLSL option? i would want to play around with some
> mame filters...
Easiest way is to enable HLSL in your MAME ini and then configure the global HLSL.ini, I believe.
You can also do it from the command line:
Code:
-hlsl_enable enable HLSL post-processing (PS3.0 required)
-hlslpath path to hlsl files
-hlsl_ini_read enable HLSL INI reading
-hlsl_ini_write enable HLSL INI writing
-hlslini HLSL INI file name for this game
-hlsl_prescale_x HLSL pre-scale override factor for X (0 for auto)
-hlsl_prescale_y HLSL pre-scale override factor for Y (0 for auto)
-hlsl_preset HLSL preset to use (0-3)
-hlsl_write enable HLSL AVI writing (huge disk bandwidth suggested)
-hlsl_snap_width HLSL upscaled-snapshot width
-hlsl_snap_height HLSL upscaled-snapshot height
-shadow_mask_alpha shadow mask alpha-blend value (1.0 is fully blended, 0.0 is no mask)
-shadow_mask_texture shadow mask texture name
-shadow_mask_x_count shadow mask width, in phosphor dots
-shadow_mask_y_count shadow mask height, in phosphor dots
-shadow_mask_usize shadow mask texture size in U direction
-shadow_mask_vsize shadow mask texture size in V direction
-curvature screen curvature amount
-pincushion pincushion amount
-scanline_alpha overall alpha scaling value for scanlines
-scanline_size overall height scaling value for scanlines
-scanline_height individual height scaling value for scanlines
-scanline_bright_scaleoverall brightness scaling value for scanlines (multiplicative)
-scanline_bright_offsetoverall brightness offset value for scanlines (additive)
-scanline_jitter overall interlace jitter scaling value for scanlines
-defocus overall defocus value in screen-relative coords
-converge_x convergence in screen-relative X direction
-converge_y convergence in screen-relative Y direction
-radial_converge_x radial convergence in screen-relative X direction
-radial_converge_y radial convergence in screen-relative Y direction
-red_ratio red output signal generated by input signal
-grn_ratio green output signal generated by input signal
-blu_ratio blue output signal generated by input signal
-saturation saturation scaling value
-offset signal offset value (additive)
-scale signal scaling value (multiplicative)
-power signal power value (exponential)
-floor signal floor level
-phosphor_life phosphorescence decay rate (0.0 is instant, 1.0 is forever)
-yiq_enable enable YIQ-space HLSL post-processing
-yiq_cc Color Carrier frequency for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_a A value for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_b B value for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_o Outgoing Color Carrier phase offset for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_p Incoming Pixel Clock scaling value for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_n Y filter notch width for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_y Y filter cutoff frequency for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_i I filter cutoff frequency for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_q Q filter cutoff frequency for NTSC signal processing
-yiq_scan_time Horizontal scanline duration for NTSC signal processing (in usec)
-yiq_phase_count Phase Count value for NTSC signal processing
And also see mame/docs/hlsl.txt.
http://mamedev.org/source/docs/hlsl.txt.html (also on your hard drive)
Interesting forum links:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=266432
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=255547
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=270919
http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75464&page=1
There's forum threads discussing ideal settings all over mameworld.info and bannister.org 
- Stiletto
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: karadaniano]
#271296 - 12/19/11 01:23 AM
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> i think he's upset cause mame don't make use of the gpu, so the graphics looks plane
> compared to the original games running on their respective arcade boards.
The heck are you on about? MAME outputs the exact same pixels the real PCB does. That is the entire point of an emulator - it isn't a port with redrawn graphics and all the stuff.
The reason it looks worse than a real machine is because low-res CRTs smear the graphics. Modern flat panels and hi-res computer CRTs don't. Some other emulators default to having filters added to smear the graphics; in MAME you do that with the HLSL system.
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Thumbs down for the ardent participation in this thread....
[Re: erev]
#271390 - 12/23/11 11:18 PM
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At best, someone should've simply said to go read some shit. At worst, they should've cuffed him on the fuckin ear...and then said go read some shit. Nuff said.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: Why are the graphics on most MAME emulated games so... poor?
[Re: Stiletto]
#271399 - 12/24/11 12:44 AM
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well, then his upset cause mame is not like epsxe 
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arcade FTW
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