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How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
#261995 - 08/11/11 09:28 PM
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With the decapping back in action and great progress being made with Model 3, seems a good time to query :P
I should think this one is very hard to do yes.
It would not surprise me if the Fujitsu MB86233 TGP DSP holds the record as being the most complex non-documented chip.
Edited by zambr (08/11/11 09:44 PM)
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: zambr]
#262117 - 08/13/11 07:08 AM
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In terms of just getting photographs of the chip die, the TGPs aren't expected to be particularly different from any other chip. So I don't think any special costs would be associated with them beyond the normal fees.
That said, any kind of decapping is expensive so the donation drives help quite a bit. I wouldn't try to associate a price with a specific chip.
What will be hard is figuring out what to do with all the bits that the typing monkeys produce from examining the photos. This seems to be the most challenging part.
Edited by Charles MacDonald (08/13/11 07:09 AM)
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[Re: zambr]
#262125 - 08/13/11 04:09 PM
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: Charles MacDonald]
#262377 - 08/17/11 10:56 AM
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> What will be hard is figuring out what to do with all the bits that the typing
> monkeys produce from examining the photos. This seems to be the most challenging
> part.
Not necessarily. Trough the model2/2a work we have a large part of the tgp inner workings mapped out. What we really need is the internal programs, but we should then be able to use them.
The main problem, from my point of view, is that we have no real idea where the damn programs are in the myriad of sega chips that are on these boards.
OG.
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| TheGuru |
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: Olivier Galibert]
#262406 - 08/17/11 11:16 PM
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> > What will be hard is figuring out what to do with all the bits that the typing
> > monkeys produce from examining the photos. This seems to be the most challenging
> > part.
>
> Not necessarily. Trough the model2/2a work we have a large part of the tgp inner
> workings mapped out. What we really need is the internal programs, but we should then
> be able to use them.
>
> The main problem, from my point of view, is that we have no real idea where the damn
> programs are in the myriad of sega chips that are on these boards.
thats not a problem because I supplied *all* of the chips. It should be very obvious where the ROM is once they are all decapped. The problem is getting the decapping *done*..... supplying chips doesnt guarantee decapping and sadly even paying for the decapping also does not guarantee decapping :-/
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: TheGuru]
#262505 - 08/19/11 03:14 PM
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Personally I am very thankful that Dr. Decapitator is doing this when he has some spare time.
He has access to a scanning electron microscope, the skills and also an interest in preserving arcade games for future generations.
There are many more games that we still need for decapping. Surely some-one in the forums has a couple of wanted MCU's which they could lend to the project to get decapped.
Cheers,
Tingoes.
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: Tingoes]
#262511 - 08/19/11 09:43 PM
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> Personally I am very thankful that Dr. Decapitator is doing this when he has some
> spare time.
> He has access to a scanning electron microscope, the skills and also an interest in
> preserving arcade games for future generations.
> There are many more games that we still need for decapping. Surely some-one in the
> forums has a couple of wanted MCU's which they could lend to the project to get
> decapped.
> Cheers,
> Tingoes.
I second that.....A very worthy cause (Decapping Project) and it requires a collective effort from everyone to progress ahead.....
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: zambr]
#271210 - 12/18/11 02:17 AM
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Hi
i´m new here and building up a site for SEGA Arcade boards and Games in my SEGA Network...
Since weeks i´m studying datasheets of CPU´s, Graphic Processors and general technical "facts" of all the SEGA arcade boards, which sometimes is hard work.
In relation to the Model 1 (and Model 2) board i´m a bit confused regarding the Fujitsu Co-Processor, which is presumably responsible for all the grahics work.
Some websites claim the SEGA Custom 315-5571, 315-5572 and 315-5573 chips are the Fujitsu MB86233 each. (in case of Model 2 there are more numbers like 315-5673, etc.)
Now i have two questions:
1. If each of the SEGA Custom chips contains a Fujitsu MB86xxx that would be 5 chips responsible for graphic functions on 1 board, is this possible?
2. On my research for the Fujitsu MB86233 i only found sites with infos on the chip, which are connected to the arcade/MAME community and no sites with technical documents or else.
But surfing in the old archived sites of Fujitsu Microelectronics with archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/19970607073658/http://www.fujitsumicro.com/products/embctrl/embctrl.html) i found an embedded SPARClite Microprocessor called MB86933 (or his successor MB86933H), which IMO is the chip, which is used on the Model 1/2 boards.
Harmonizing this info with the infos from the official japanese SEGA Arcade History book, there are only two MB86933 with 20MHz each working on Model 1!?
Do you have any reliable informations about the true quantity and ID of the Fujitsu chips under the SEGA 315-xxxx caps?
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: MrSaturn]
#271262 - 12/18/11 07:22 PM
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> 1. If each of the SEGA Custom chips contains a Fujitsu MB86xxx that would be 5 chips
> responsible for graphic functions on 1 board, is this possible?
Yup. The jobs are split between them because they're each relatively low-powered. Exactly how the split occurs isn't known. (The varying Sega custom chip numbers indicate different embedded ROM programs).
> ) i found an embedded SPARClite Microprocessor called MB86933 (or his successor
> MB86933H), which IMO is the chip, which is used on the Model 1/2 boards.
That's not the chip. The MB86233 used by Sega is a dedicated math DSP with a custom Fujitsu architecture. We wish it was something as well-known as SPARC 
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: How much will it cost to decap Sega Model 1?
[Re: R. Belmont]
#271266 - 12/18/11 07:48 PM
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> > 1. If each of the SEGA Custom chips contains a Fujitsu MB86xxx that would be 5
> chips
> > responsible for graphic functions on 1 board, is this possible?
>
> Yup. The jobs are split between them because they're each relatively low-powered.
> Exactly how the split occurs isn't known. (The varying Sega custom chip numbers
> indicate different embedded ROM programs).
>
> > ) i found an embedded SPARClite Microprocessor called MB86933 (or his successor
> > MB86933H), which IMO is the chip, which is used on the Model 1/2 boards.
>
> That's not the chip. The MB86233 used by Sega is a dedicated math DSP with a custom
> Fujitsu architecture. We wish it was something as well-known as SPARC
I'll be along to post my response in a few hours ... 
- Stiletto
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