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MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
#256720 - 06/07/11 01:43 PM
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In the current build (baseline and UI), enabling HLSL (and no other parameters) makes the colors very dark. Is anyone else experiencing this?
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#256721 - 06/07/11 02:00 PM
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Thats just a natural result of CRT emulation, which are darker than LCD displays...you just have to play around with the Brightness,Contrast and Gamma sliders to compensate...and remember most of these Arcade CRT's were in poorly lit rooms, so they didnt look as dark as they do in your nicely lighted room.
..at least thats what i thought, and what i have been doing...
Its worth it though, as it actually feels like im playing MAME on my old Mitsubishi Diamond Pro CRT back in 2005...
HLSL kicks ass, and if i have to play around for a few seconds to get it perfect, then so be it.
Edited by Ziggy100 (06/07/11 02:02 PM)
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#256724 - 06/07/11 02:55 PM
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#256725 - 06/07/11 02:55 PM
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You mean without shadow mask or scanlines enabled? Just turning HLSL on does not have any effect on colors for me.
Check out your color_offset and color_power settings and make sure they are set on default values.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#256726 - 06/07/11 03:03 PM
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> In the current build (baseline and UI), enabling HLSL (and no other parameters) makes
> the colors very dark. Is anyone else experiencing this?
The default parameters for HLSL deliberately create an unpleasant image to encourage people to experiment. So sayeth the banned one 
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> The default parameters for HLSL deliberately create an unpleasant image to encourage
> people to experiment. So sayeth the banned one
Hmh hmh hmh hmh.
Here's the difference, from left to right, 142u5 vs 142u4. These are OS screen shots. Each has only HLSL enabled, default values. The right one looks normal to me; no matter what I do with the left one in-game, it looks like bad s-video.
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: Well.....
[Re: mogli]
#256736 - 06/07/11 05:06 PM
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do not enable HLSL at all, if you do not want to tweak it.
this is not the thing like "just enable it".
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Well.....
[Re: mogli]
#256747 - 06/07/11 06:08 PM
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> Here's the difference, from left to right, 142u5 vs 142u4. These are OS screen shots.
> Each has only HLSL enabled, default values. The right one looks normal to me; no
> matter what I do with the left one in-game, it looks like bad s-video.
That's your problem. People here and on bannister have posted screens that look far, far better than either of your shots. Maybe you should start from their settings.
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> That's your problem. People here and on bannister have posted screens that look far,
> far better than either of your shots. Maybe you should start from their settings.
Wulp....GOH-D......if it's that difficult to start from scratch, it is a good thing?
Incidentally, I tried John IV's recent settings, on Bubbles admittedly, and it looked all moire-warbly.
Regardless, obviously something has changed between u4 and u5 (the fps is better on u5, that's cool, but....), as you can see below.
142u4: aperture.png - shadow mask .3 ; all else default (I think this looks pretty good, at least in this orientation.)
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: Well.....
[Re: mogli]
#256793 - 06/08/11 05:36 AM
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so your plan is to stay on u4 forever then?
Why not learn and figure out what has changed and then adjust your settings accordingly to compensate for the changes.
You already stated starting out from scratch isn't difficult right?
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#256796 - 06/08/11 05:48 AM
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Yeah! and i'm the slow one 
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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HI, just to share what I got: here my settings used on MAME 0.142u5 after a bit of work. I'm quite satisfied, but I expect some comments/advices to improve that more:)
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable 1
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_size 1
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_write
hlsl_snap_width 1920
hlsl_snap_height 1200
shadow_mask_alpha 0.15
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 512
shadow_mask_y_count 384
shadow_mask_usize 0.09375
shadow_mask_vsize 0.09375
curvature 0.05
screen_scale_top 1.0
screen_scale_bottom 1.0
pincushion 0.05
scanline_alpha 0.75
scanline_size 1.10
scanline_height 0.60
scanline_bright_scale 1.70
scanline_bright_offset 0.60
scanline_jitter 0.15
defocus_x 1.5
defocus_y 1.5
red_converge_x -0.4
red_converge_y -0.6
green_converge_x 0.0
green_converge_y 0.0
blue_converge_x 0.0
blue_converge_y 0.0
red_radial_converge_x 0.0
red_radial_converge_y 0.0
green_radial_converge_x 0.0
green_radial_converge_y 0.0
blue_radial_converge_x 0.0
blue_radial_converge_y 0.0
red_from_r 1
red_from_g 0.0
red_from_b 0.0
green_from_r 0.0
green_from_g 1
green_from_b 0.0
blue_from_r 0.0
blue_from_g 0.0
blue_from_b 1
saturation 1.05
red_offset 0.0
green_offset 0.0
blue_offset 0.0
red_scale 1.20
green_scale 1.20
blue_scale 1.20
red_power 1.70
green_power 1.70
blue_power 1.70
red_floor 0.06
green_floor 0.06
blue_floor 0.06
red_phosphor_life 0.10
green_phosphor_life 0.10
blue_phosphor_life 0.10
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.59754545
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_o 0.0
yiq_p 1.0
yiq_y 3.0
yiq_i 1.2
yiq_q 0.6
yiq_scan_time 52.6
yiq_phase_count 2
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: Gardhul]
#257147 - 06/12/11 11:20 PM
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Very nice settings. I try many games and looks nice and bright. The key is launching the games you still have memories of seeing from the Arcade and if the settings are good enough, for a split second, you think you have returned to that time.
Thanks for sharing them, I think they are the best I have seen yet and I will be using these 
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: B2K24]
#257148 - 06/12/11 11:24 PM
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Thank you for testing them!
In fact I do the same thing: load the games I loved, and when I get that "feeling" I know I'm the right way 
Edited by Gardhul (06/13/11 09:12 AM)
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: Gardhul]
#257177 - 06/13/11 04:57 AM
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> HI, just to share what I got: here my settings used on MAME 0.142u5 after a bit of
> work.
The snap looks great, as do many others'. This'll probly be a deal-breaker, but I don't have an LCD to test on. I've been using my arcade multisync at 1024x768. Funny that the snaps look great, but MAME itself in-situ here looks like garbage on this monitor. (At least with u5. Look fine with u4.)
Also, I'm getting the idea these various settings only look good on the specific games, and indeed monitors/resolutions, each of you folks are running/showing.
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: Gardhul]
#257188 - 06/13/11 07:55 AM
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> Thank you for testing them!
> If fact I do te same thing: load the games I loved, and when I get that "feeling" I
> know Im the right way
here's some more pics using your settings
I like my brightness and contrast @ 1.050 FYI
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#257194 - 06/13/11 10:01 AM
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Quote:
The snap looks great, as do many others'. This'll probly be a deal-breaker, but I don't have an LCD to test on. I've been using my arcade multisync at 1024x768. Funny that the snaps look great, but MAME itself in-situ here looks like garbage on this monitor. (At least with u5. Look fine with u4.)
Also, I'm getting the idea these various settings only look good on the specific games, and indeed monitors/resolutions, each of you folks are running/showin
Yes, it could be... but did you try to change scanlines screen height? I was thinking that could be the major culprit of bad rendering on resolutions different than 1920x1200
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: mogli]
#257208 - 06/13/11 02:55 PM
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> Also, I'm getting the idea these various settings only look good on the specific
> games
Agreed. I am running on an LCD @ 1920x1080. Regardless, I need a variety of configurations depending on the title, driver, or/and it's original output display type.
What I ended up having is one "base" to start with which works well for several/many/most (?) games, but then various *.ini files to cover specific display-types, drivers and games which change or tweak anywhere between 1 to 5 different settings found in the "base" mame.ini file. Off the top of my head I know I set different specific configurations for...
Game Specfic:
-------------
Donkey Kong
Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man
Popeye
Moon Patrol
Pac-Land
Rush'n Attack
Bump'N Jump
Gauntlet/Gauntlet II
Dig Dug
Phoenix
Display Specific:
-----------------
vector
vertical
Driver Specific:
----------------
mcr*
There may be others and obviously there is over-lapping in some settings. But again my approach was going from the most to the least games in trying to find the right settings with as few *.ini files as possible.
I used horizontal-raster games (And even within those there are obvious differences), for the base mame.ini.
I took hlsl completely off for vector games. (I like to max the gamma and contrast for these games though).
Less pincushion for vertical games.
A sharper image and more saturation for mcr* based titles.
As well as a variety of other game specific adjustments. I can provide all the details (*.ini files) if you like. However, as you also noted your display will affect your results as well.
EDIT: In an attempt to help your overall too dark issue. Try increasing Contrast. If the color become too light for your taste, decrease gamma.
The default in MAME:
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness 1.0
contrast 1.0
gamma 1.0
pause_brightness 0.65
Try adjusting to:
contrast 1.250
gamma 0.750
or more extreme:
contrast 1.500
gamma 0.500
if you want overall much brighter with a little color fading try:
contrast 1.250
gamma 1.000
Of course you can try any variations on the above. :-)
Overall, nothing less than 0.500 gamma and nothing more than 1.500 contrast for raster games. Obviously, I try to keep a balanced percentage between the two...But that's just me and my 'borderline' OCD.
Edited by Trebor (06/13/11 03:28 PM)
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Re: MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
[Re: Trebor]
#257321 - 06/14/11 10:54 AM
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Quote:
did you try to change scanlines screen height? I was thinking that could be the major culprit of bad rendering on resolutions different than 1920x1200
I didn't really play around with it much....
Quote:
Try increasing Contrast...
I did before, with no success. However, increasing the brightness brings the color back close to normal. The settings I altered from default were:
- shadow_mask_alpha .15
- brightness 1.2
- shadow_mask_x_count 1024
- shadow_mask_y_count 768
These two had some effect on the color scheme, but more importantly matched my desktop, and got the shadow mask sized correctly. However, at least on my monitor/at this resolution, there was a greater (and more pleasing effect) on vertical games run horizontally, as shown here:
In general, though, I prefer the scanlines feature - without any shadow mask. (Of course, much better results with shadow mask may be in using an LCD at higher resolution.)
DK looks crappy run horizontally, but vertically it looks nice (if you like vertical lines....) :
Crazy Climber looks decent, but still some color issue...brigtness at 1.1 seemed about the best, but still lacking:
As with blue screen games in earlier builds/methods of producing scanlines, Bubbles did very well with scanline_alpha at .3 , brightness at 1.2 :
Also, I notice the scanlines are being 'scaled' properly now per game (which is the ticket for me). In Bubbles above and Pole Position below, the lines are 'correct' with the same scanline value:
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257342 - 06/14/11 03:10 PM
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Consider it high comedy....sincere tragedy....whatever...don't take it personally.
The Culture
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257344 - 06/14/11 03:50 PM
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This has been asked before - it's a stupid idea and won't be supported.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#257354 - 06/14/11 05:52 PM
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> This has been asked before - it's a stupid idea and won't be supported.
It would actually be nice as a temporary fix for games which were actually vertical but are implemented as horizontal due to misunderstanding of the video hardware (and hence need fixing); The only game I can think of with this problem right now is beezer.
LN
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"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Lord Nightmare]
#257390 - 06/14/11 08:47 PM
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> It would actually be nice as a temporary fix for games which were actually vertical
> but are implemented as horizontal due to misunderstanding of the video hardware (and
> hence need fixing); The only game I can think of with this problem right now is
> beezer.
Huh? Why can't you just ROT90 it or whatever?
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: R. Belmont]
#257434 - 06/15/11 05:07 AM
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> > It would actually be nice as a temporary fix for games which were actually vertical
> > but are implemented as horizontal due to misunderstanding of the video hardware
> (and
> > hence need fixing); The only game I can think of with this problem right now is
> > beezer.
>
> Huh? Why can't you just ROT90 it or whatever?
Well, you could, but the way the renderer reads the scanlines of the framebuffer ram is currently wrong. Also the video timing is rather complicated; Whoever designed a no-waitstate framebuffer and video display circuit like beezer uses was either extremely clever or completely nuts.
LN
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#257454 - 06/15/11 10:37 AM
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> This has been asked before - it's a stupid idea and won't be supported.
Hahahahahahah. That isn't what I asked, love. But okay.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257464 - 06/15/11 01:51 PM
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> > This has been asked before - it's a stupid idea and won't be supported.
>
> Hahahahahahah. That isn't what I asked, love. But okay.
It wasn't you that asked before - it was some other idiot (you're multiplying). It's a stupid idea irrespective of the particular person asking at any given moment.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#257525 - 06/16/11 04:21 AM
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> > > This has been asked before - it's a stupid idea and won't be supported.
> >
> > Hahahahahahah. That isn't what I asked, love. But okay.
>
> It wasn't you that asked before - it was some other idiot (you're multiplying). It's
> a stupid idea irrespective of the particular person asking at any given moment.
Actually, whether someone else asked, I did ask earlier. You see, when displaying vertical games horizontally, the lines look thinly weak, and sometimes moire-y. While I generally prefer horizontal lines for all games, the ability to have decent lines in a vert game/horz orientation (or, much less likely, horz game/vert orientation) situation is what I'm concerned with.
Curiously, no one has posted snaps of vertical games...or even any classic games....
In any case, you're silly. I may have to squish you.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257545 - 06/16/11 08:03 AM
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> In any case, you're silly. I may have to squish you.
You can't squish a zit on your own arse. You're the epitome of weaksauce.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Matty_]
#257561 - 06/16/11 11:28 AM
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> > In any case, you're silly. I may have to squish you.
>
> You can't squish a zit on your own arse. You're the epitome of weaksauce.
Dude! You called Vas a zit on my ass!!
And, I wish I had weak sauce...but, alas, it's pretty salty.
PS: I've realized this 'arse' spelling really means that you Brittany folk are conceding you can't say it right.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257564 - 06/16/11 12:27 PM
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> PS: I've realized this 'arse' spelling really means that you Brittany folk are
> conceding you can't say it right.
That coming from a septic? We have separate slang words for buttocks (arse) and donkeys (ass) and pronounce them differently. You're the ones whose language has degenerated to the point where they become the same.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#257698 - 06/17/11 10:06 PM
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> > PS: I've realized this 'arse' spelling really means that you Brittany folk are
> > conceding you can't say it right.
>
> That coming from a septic? We have separate slang words for buttocks (arse) and
> donkeys (ass) and pronounce them differently. You're the ones whose language has
> degenerated to the point where they become the same.
Wellh, how does 'idea-r' come from idea?....
And perhaps you mean 'sceptic'? And what are you meaning?
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257740 - 06/18/11 06:44 AM
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> And perhaps you mean 'sceptic'? And what are you meaning?
Rhyming slang, you dolt. Yank, septic tank, septic, seppo.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: mogli]
#257741 - 06/18/11 06:45 AM
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> And perhaps you mean 'sceptic'? And what are you meaning?
Rhyming slang, you dolt. Yank, septic tank, septic, seppo.
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Re: By the way: is there a way to rotate scanlines in HLSL (independent of monitor orientation)? (nt)
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#257814 - 06/19/11 03:38 AM
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> > And perhaps you mean 'sceptic'? And what are you meaning?
>
> Rhyming slang, you dolt. Yank, septic tank, septic, seppo.
The word 'septic' did occur to me, but I didn't get the innuendo, and so gave you the benefit of the doubt. -smiles-
I see you didn't address the first part of my last. Check.
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MAME 142.5 - HLSL makes it dark
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