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Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
#253126 - 04/28/11 07:46 AM
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I don't know either of these games but the MAME source has After Burner marked as a clone of After Burner II. Is this really true? A brief search on google seems to suggest that this is not true, but maybe someone else knows better.
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253127 - 04/28/11 08:02 AM
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After Burner II is an update of After Burner, adding a throttle for speed control, and using different motion cabinets. The graphics and gameplay mechanics are the same.
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Matty_]
#253131 - 04/28/11 09:00 AM
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> After Burner II is an update of After Burner, adding a throttle for speed control,
> and using different motion cabinets. The graphics and gameplay mechanics are the
> same.
Thanks for the info. So I guess that it is a bug that After Burner is marked as a clone of After Burner II? Seems like After Burner II should be marked as a clone of After Burner instead.
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253132 - 04/28/11 09:22 AM
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> Thanks for the info. So I guess that it is a bug that After Burner is marked as a
> clone of After Burner II? Seems like After Burner II should be marked as a clone of
> After Burner instead.
Current MAME convention is to make the international release of the latest update the parent. See it all over the place, like Fighters Impact A being considered the parent of Fighters Impact, and Magical Date EX being considered the parent of Magical Date. May or may not make sense to you, but that's the current convention. You'd have to at least give Kale a blowjob if you want it changed.
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Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253133 - 04/28/11 10:01 AM
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> I don't know either of these games but the MAME source has After Burner marked as a
> clone of After Burner II. Is this really true? A brief search on google seems to
> suggest that this is not true, but maybe someone else knows better.
If the rationale is "but After Burner came out before After Burner II!" Well... another rule about parent/clone sets is that the newest revision discovered (almost) always becomes the parent. While that doesn't _usually_ apply to sequels, After Burner II is a lot more like a newer revision than a sequel. Or at least that's how it was explained to me.
As Wikipedia says:
"After Burner was followed by After Burner II, which was released on the same year. It is said by some sources [2] that this game is more of revision of its predecessor, rather than an entirely new game, a practice later repeated for Galaxy Force and Galaxy Force 2.
[2] http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=698 "
Also note System16.com's note on that page regarding the original After Burner.
"This was a prototype, it is unknown whether it actually made it into production, all that is really known is that it has no throttle, and is slightly more primative than After Burner II graphically and sonically."
And Wikipedia's notes on After Burner II:
"The differences between After Burner and After Burner II are very small, and it is easy to confuse the two. The differences included:
- The waiting-for-start sequence (the screen/music after a player inserts credits but before starting the game) is different.
- After Burner II added a throttle to the controls, allowing players to vary their speed while flying.
- After Burner has 18 stages; After Burner II has those same stages but adds three additional stages that make 21 stages total.
- After Burner II added a few minor enemy changes to introduce new speed-based challenges (missiles/aircraft behind the player aircraft) to account for the use of the new throttle control.
- The player's missiles in After Burner II could be fired considerably more frequently.
- Musical compositions were the same for both games, though After Burner's instrumentation is different in spots.
"
I realize it's not "proof", but there may not be any.
- Stiletto
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Stiletto]
#253134 - 04/28/11 10:14 AM
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> "This was a prototype, it is unknown whether it actually made it into production, all
> that is really known is that it has no throttle, and is slightly more primative than
> After Burner II graphically and sonically."
That's a load of shit. I saw plenty of deluxe After Burner sit-down cabinets that roll from side to side. Unless they're just very widespread prototypes, it seems to me that the game made it to production and export. Might not have made it to the US, though.
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Matty_]
#253135 - 04/28/11 10:17 AM
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> > "This was a prototype, it is unknown whether it actually made it into production,
> all
> > that is really known is that it has no throttle, and is slightly more primative
> than
> > After Burner II graphically and sonically."
>
> That's a load of shit. I saw plenty of deluxe After Burner sit-down cabinets that
> roll from side to side. Unless they're just very widespread prototypes, it seems to
> me that the game made it to production and export. Might not have made it to the US,
> though.
 Never claimed System16 was accurate, now did I...
I will say that I don't remember seeing one in the US, or at least After Burner II was a lot more common. But you'd think Toby would have seen them, since he's UK-based, in that case.
- Stiletto
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Stiletto]
#253136 - 04/28/11 10:59 AM
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That's very good information, but doesn't it mean that After Burner II should be marked as a clone of After Burner, not vice-versa as is the case in MAME sources?
Or am I misunderstanding something still?
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253137 - 04/28/11 11:09 AM
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> That's very good information, but doesn't it mean that After Burner II should be
> marked as a clone of After Burner, not vice-versa as is the case in MAME sources?
no, it doesn't.
> Or am I misunderstanding something still?
yes. newer version is considered the parent in MAME.
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parent does not mean older. quite the opposite *nt*
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253140 - 04/28/11 01:33 PM
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Stiletto]
#253141 - 04/28/11 02:08 PM
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Ignoring where (or what) Matty is, I remember an After Burner (not II) in one of those deluxe cabinets at the Hurstville cinema. I remember my mum's shock when it rolled in response to the stick - she didn't realise it was a motion cabinet when she sat down. After Burner II was more widespread in Sydney, though.
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| Stiletto |
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They're always after me Lucky ROMS!
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253151 - 04/28/11 03:21 PM
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> That's very good information, but doesn't it mean that After Burner II should be
> marked as a clone of After Burner, not vice-versa as is the case in MAME sources?
>
> Or am I misunderstanding something still?
As I said in my message:
Quote:
Another rule about parent/clone sets is that the newest revision discovered (almost) always becomes the parent. While that doesn't _usually_ apply to sequels, After Burner II is a lot more like a newer revision than a sequel. Or at least that's how it was explained to me.
Ergo After Burner II would be newer than After Burner, and they currently consider it more like a revision, so After Burner II is the newest revision discovered, so it's the parent.
It is worth revisiting though: By that logic Ms. Pac-Man would almost be the parent of Pac-Man. Almost, though. (Different year, many more different levels, different enemy behavior, etc. etc.) What's the criteria: percentage of code changed? dunno...
- Stiletto
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Stiletto]
#253154 - 04/28/11 04:12 PM
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the final decision is up to whoever wrote the driver. this small bit of freedom is one of the nicer parts of working on the project, so there is nothing to reconsider 
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: Bryan Ischo]
#253155 - 04/28/11 04:16 PM
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> That's very good information, but doesn't it mean that After Burner II should be
> marked as a clone of After Burner, not vice-versa as is the case in MAME sources?
They're the same game (name change or not), just ABII is a newer version. By MAME rules, the newest most-English least-warning-screened version (European if available) is the parent. So it's correct that ABII is the parent and AB is the clone.
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: R. Belmont]
#253187 - 04/28/11 09:38 PM
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> rules, the newest most-English least-warning-screened version (European if available)
> is the parent. So it's correct that ABII is the parent and AB is the clone.
Good to hear that belmondo.However this doesnt aplly to "Shinobi" and "Sega touring Car Champ.".
System16b is better than System16a(at least on sound hw).Thus , one of the B versions of Shinobi should be the parent according to the rule you explained.
On the other hand(just for STCC , dont confuse with shinobi) , in Sega games "version A" means it is newer version if there is no B or C ! Again according to the rule you told , the A version should have been the parent.
Thanks if anybody will reply to me.
Edited by Hibo (04/28/11 09:40 PM)
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Re: Is After Burner a clone of After Burner II
[Re: R. Belmont]
#253219 - 04/29/11 03:38 AM
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Gradius gets scattered around a bit on the current policy, unfortunately, with Nemesis and Vulcan Venture. Thank you so much, Konami, for messing with titles that didn't need to be messed with.
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