| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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Question about cleaning up bezel philosophy
#250082 - 03/27/11 10:19 PM
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If the bezel has errors, that are clearly part of the bezel as it was printed, do you clean them up to preserve the error, or fix the error.
For example, on the cheeky mouse bezel (which I'm working on by the way), there is a section of wall visible between the uprights of the banister, but it is colored to match the stairs, not the wall... an error. Clean up the error as is, or correct it?
Another example, the colors were printed offset in some areas, so, for example, a black border between red and yellow, but some red is visible on the yellow side of the border... clean that up to preserve the offset color printing error, or correct it?
For the offset errors, I can see this going either way, because the "original design" would have had the colors lined up perfectly.
For the banister/wall example, this error was clearly even in the original design... so more likely worth preserving.
Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Gat
Edit: or am I over thinking the whole "preservation" thing, and just make it look nice.
Edited by Gatinho (03/27/11 10:42 PM)
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| GatKong |
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Tetris Mason
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The yellow wall between the banisters... clearly a design error, likely preserve it?
The blue mouse... way off printing error, not a design error, likely fix it?
[ATTACHED IMAGE]
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Mr. Do |
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MAME Art Editor
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Re: Por exemplo
[Re: GatKong]
#250084 - 03/27/11 10:48 PM
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> The yellow wall between the banisters... clearly a design error, likely preserve it?
>
> The blue mouse... way off printing error, not a design error, likely fix it?
Except that the "printing error" was likely done on the entire run. I already checked to other examples, and they both match up to the scan.
So I would say, yes, keep the wall yellow between the bannisters, because that was how the production line came out.
And keep the printing offsets, um, offset, because that's also how the production line came out.
If the offset was a one-off, I would say fix it. (e.g. I've seen Centipedes offset, and also perfect).
But simply that I was able to find to random photos, of two different cabinets, where the offset is the same, I would say leave it.
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RELAX and just have fun. Remember, it's all about the games.
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| jcroach |
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MAME Fan
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Re: Por exemplo
[Re: Mr. Do]
#250147 - 03/28/11 05:51 PM
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> > The yellow wall between the banisters... clearly a design error, likely preserve
> it?
> >
> > The blue mouse... way off printing error, not a design error, likely fix it?
>
>
> Except that the "printing error" was likely done on the entire run. I already checked
> to other examples, and they both match up to the scan.
>
> So I would say, yes, keep the wall yellow between the bannisters, because that was
> how the production line came out.
>
> And keep the printing offsets, um, offset, because that's also how the production
> line came out.
>
> If the offset was a one-off, I would say fix it. (e.g. I've seen Centipedes offset,
> and also perfect).
>
> But simply that I was able to find to random photos, of two different cabinets, where
> the offset is the same, I would say leave it.
You make a compelling case. I personally prefer that all printing errors always be corrected back to the original intentions of the artist, but I know that isn't true to preservation.
Jeff Rothe over at rotheblog.com had a post about mis-registration of artwork and the correction controversy back in 2008.
http://www.rotheblog.com/2008/09/arcade-...work/#more-2188
Edited by jcroach (03/28/11 05:59 PM)
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Tetris Mason
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Re: Por exemplo
[Re: jcroach]
#250153 - 03/28/11 06:43 PM
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jcroach,
That gunsmoke art an interesting analysis. It brings up the question...
What's the mission?
1. Accurately portray the art as it was in the cabinets at the time?
or
2. Accurately portray the art as it was designed to be, before productions errors.
And Mr. Do's point about the centipede cabinets means there's sometimes two "versions" out there, good ones and bad ones. I personally agree with Mr. Do, if there's some good, some bad, obviously preserve the good. If the entire production run is bad... that's interesting.
But this is easy enough. I can do each color that is offset as its own layer... blue being the one we're talking about here. Then, I can make one copy clean, as the artist drew it to be, and one with blue offset as it was printed, and let y'all decide which to use, if not both.
I'll have to look real close and see if other colors are similarly offset. It appears at first look the white edges on the greens and reds may be an intentional effect for highlighting, but I'll need to look real close to see if those colors bleed out on the otherside of any black borders or not. If I have to, each color can be its own layer, just like a silkscreen process would be for printing. Then we can play with the layers all we want.
But errors like the yellow wall, I'd keep either way, since that's not a printing error, its the way it was drawn.
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| jcroach |
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Re: Por exemplo
[Re: GatKong]
#250158 - 03/28/11 07:54 PM
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> jcroach,
>
> That gunsmoke art an interesting analysis. It brings up the question...
>
> What's the mission?
>
> 1. Accurately portray the art as it was in the cabinets at the time?
>
> or
>
> 2. Accurately portray the art as it was designed to be, before productions errors.
>
> And Mr. Do's point about the centipede cabinets means there's sometimes two
> "versions" out there, good ones and bad ones. I personally agree with Mr. Do, if
> there's some good, some bad, obviously preserve the good. If the entire production
> run is bad... that's interesting.
>
> But this is easy enough. I can do each color that is offset as its own layer... blue
> being the one we're talking about here. Then, I can make one copy clean, as the
> artist drew it to be, and one with blue offset as it was printed, and let y'all
> decide which to use, if not both.
>
> I'll have to look real close and see if other colors are similarly offset. It appears
> at first look the white edges on the greens and reds may be an intentional effect for
> highlighting, but I'll need to look real close to see if those colors bleed out on
> the otherside of any black borders or not. If I have to, each color can be its own
> layer, just like a silkscreen process would be for printing. Then we can play with
> the layers all we want.
>
> But errors like the yellow wall, I'd keep either way, since that's not a printing
> error, its the way it was drawn.
I think on your example, the whole blue layer is shifted. And likely the green. My guess is that the columns should not have any white at all. The problem is it's all a guess. Unless we can find the original art.
Plus one person's obvious fix is not always so obvious to someone else.
Zorg, Ad_Enuff, Kiltron, anyone else have an opinion on this? I'm fine sticking to whatever Mr. Do wants to do, but I think the discuss is good.
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Re: Por exemplo
[Re: jcroach]
#250169 - 03/28/11 10:30 PM
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I would say exactly how it was printed. I have traced parts where things were shifted but assumed that was the way the entire batch was done. I don't think it matters that much because once it is shrunk it kinda gets lost. I guess there may be a few exceptions. Whatever everyone decides is fine with me, it's very hard to get 100% accuracy. What was the color before it faded? What was there before the huge scratch was there and so on. It could be approached just like MAME code itself. Release a nicely cleaned up piece of the artwork and improve it when a better example is found. I actually found a few things I did that I would like to alter a little.
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