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MAME running slow since 0.137
#239252 - 11/18/10 04:22 AM
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At some point between 0.136 and 0.140, just about every single game is running slow. Even games like Spectar and Pacman. They all seem to bottom out around 75-80% frame rate, even with frame skip on. It's pretty consistent no matter the game. I've tried a fresh install of 0.140 in a new dir with no settings and it behaves exactly the same. Any idea what might have changed to cause this? This is running on a 3Ghz P4, not exactly a new machine, but more than capable to run all of these games at 300-400% frame rate on 0.136.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239255 - 11/18/10 04:42 AM
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> At some point between 0.136 and 0.140, just about every single game is running slow.
> Even games like Spectar and Pacman. They all seem to bottom out around 75-80% frame
> rate, even with frame skip on. It's pretty consistent no matter the game. I've tried
> a fresh install of 0.140 in a new dir with no settings and it behaves exactly the
> same. Any idea what might have changed to cause this? This is running on a 3Ghz P4,
> not exactly a new machine, but more than capable to run all of these games at
> 300-400% frame rate on 0.136.
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
try running MAME with these options off:
waitvsync 0
syncrefresh 0
triplebuffer 0
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: abelenki]
#239263 - 11/18/10 05:40 AM
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> try running MAME with these options off:
>
> waitvsync 0
> syncrefresh 0
> triplebuffer 0
Thanks, but no luck. Looks like those are already all 0 (defaults). I'm wondering if something changed in terms of DirectX or video driver requirements?
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239269 - 11/18/10 07:25 AM
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What is your Windows desktop resolution set at?
Mame runs at the desktop resolution, unless you tell it otherwise.
Try dropping your Windows desktop down to something lower and see if the framerates go up.
If they do, you might want to consider setting a resolution in your mame.ini that is lower than your desktop resolution.
How about artwork? Are you running with bezels turned on?
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239271 - 11/18/10 07:37 AM
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> > try running MAME with these options off:
> >
> > waitvsync 0
> > syncrefresh 0
> > triplebuffer 0
>
> Thanks, but no luck. Looks like those are already all 0 (defaults). I'm wondering if
> something changed in terms of DirectX or video driver requirements?
I did notice that a recent NVIDIA driver release seemed to screw with MAME framerates on a GeForce 6200. I don't recall the revision, but I had to roll back to an older one for a while to get 100% framerates on games like Pacman. The very latest release seemed to fix the problem. Maybe that's what you're seeing?
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239272 - 11/18/10 07:55 AM
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Seeing as how I've only been playing Shadow Dancer... This last (major/non-'u') release - I've noticed that game was just a bit faster. When I compiled that one update I had noticed it was a bit slower than the previous version -after so many frames.
Although... I have had a couple of times where I go into/run a game, and it has a black screen, and the sound is in SLOW-MO. If I hit Alt+Tab to minimize the MAME screen/window -sound resumes to full speed... But I still can't play it. Returns to slow-mo/black screen when I go back into it.
It seems like I would play a flash or java game on the internet, then MAME would be messed up (in how it runs).
ETA: I'll check Anton's suggestions later.
Edited by T0M (11/18/10 07:56 AM)
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239281 - 11/18/10 03:03 PM
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Interesting. I'm using MAME 0.140 on a 2.8GHz Celeron with an ATI Radeon 9550 (256MB) with no trouble, until you run a 3D game in MAME of course.
On a similar-spec 3GHz 'proper' Pentium 4 board, which has an old temporary 9200 or 9250 card in it, I can get almost twice the speed. That still doesn't stop my 'current' Celeron from hitting 490-500% unthrottled on pacman, and up to 2100% with the fast forward mode.
I have noticed though, I tested Pooyan on a neighbour's PC (who previously owned a cocktail table of it), and it was running at about 95% and just wouldn't go above there without jumping up the frame skip, which seemed unusual. Pooyan runs at around 400% unthrottled on the Celeron, and 950% maxed out. I really have no idea on what's making some very similar PCs run slower than others, apart from maybe something Windows is doing.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: krick]
#239285 - 11/18/10 04:47 PM
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> What is your Windows desktop resolution set at?
>
> Mame runs at the desktop resolution, unless you tell it otherwise.
>
> Try dropping your Windows desktop down to something lower and see if the framerates
> go up.
>
> If they do, you might want to consider setting a resolution in your mame.ini that is
> lower than your desktop resolution.
>
> How about artwork? Are you running with bezels turned on?
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
My games are running at native low resolutions (I'm using an arcade monitor with Soft15khz). I've also tried using D3D and 640x480 with no change. And yes all artwork/bezels are turned off. I was using a pretty old video driver, which I upgraded last night with no change. Although my card is pretty old (ATI Radeon 9800) and the latest driver they have available is a year old (Catalyst 9.3). The strange thing is when I go back to 0.136 this problem completely vanishes. Running 0.140 and everything is at 75% again. I can't for the life of me figure this out! Is there anyway to dump some debug information that may help? I'm also going to try and narrow down the exact version that this started happening and maybe check the change notes for anything obvious.
Edited by ahofle (11/18/10 04:48 PM)
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239292 - 11/18/10 06:41 PM
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Have you tried a P4 optimized build?
Perhaps there has been an recent compiler-related change recently that has left P4 disadvantaged.
> > What is your Windows desktop resolution set at?
> >
> > Mame runs at the desktop resolution, unless you tell it otherwise.
> >
> > Try dropping your Windows desktop down to something lower and see if the framerates
> > go up.
> >
> > If they do, you might want to consider setting a resolution in your mame.ini that
> is
> > lower than your desktop resolution.
> >
> > How about artwork? Are you running with bezels turned on?
>
> Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
> My games are running at native low resolutions (I'm using an arcade monitor with
> Soft15khz). I've also tried using D3D and 640x480 with no change. And yes all
> artwork/bezels are turned off. I was using a pretty old video driver, which I
> upgraded last night with no change. Although my card is pretty old (ATI Radeon 9800)
> and the latest driver they have available is a year old (Catalyst 9.3). The strange
> thing is when I go back to 0.136 this problem completely vanishes. Running 0.140 and
> everything is at 75% again. I can't for the life of me figure this out! Is there
> anyway to dump some debug information that may help? I'm also going to try and narrow
> down the exact version that this started happening and maybe check the change notes
> for anything obvious.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: "The Manuel"]
#239329 - 11/19/10 05:05 AM
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> Have you tried a P4 optimized build?
> Perhaps there has been an recent compiler-related change recently that has left P4
> disadvantaged.
>
I just tried the i686 version and it behaves the same. The weird thing is a slower computer (old Athlon 3200XP) runs it fine.
I also tried updating DirectX and both 2005 and 2008 MSVC++ redistributables with no change.
^&%#&@^%*$&^@%&%!@#$^%!@#$!!!!!
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239332 - 11/19/10 05:26 AM
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: krick]
#239334 - 11/19/10 05:38 AM
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I've been having the same problems running Rally X and Pacman on my Core 2 Duo. They both only can hit 99% and skip frames. Everything else runs at 100%
It's been this way ever since .139
Edited by firebricks (11/19/10 07:43 AM)
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239392 - 11/19/10 10:23 PM
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Stupid question, but, are you running a clean install? I've found that installing MAME over old versions does wonky things. Only move over/save the required stuff like ROMs and such, everything else (like .cfg files) need to go.
Lando242
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How to Ask Questions the Smart Way.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: Lando242]
#239397 - 11/19/10 11:11 PM
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> Stupid question, but, are you running a clean install? I've found that installing
> MAME over old versions does wonky things. Only move over/save the required stuff like
> ROMs and such, everything else (like .cfg files) need to go.
>
> Lando242
Yeah that was one of my first thoughts so I unzipped a completely virgin install to a new dir and copied a few roms over. Same exact behavior.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: krick]
#239408 - 11/20/10 05:12 AM
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> For shits and giggles, give CabMAME a try...
>
It does the same thing. 
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: firebricks]
#239428 - 11/20/10 07:30 PM
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maybe its because they run in a little more then 60hz, like 60.3290434.
try switching your desktop frequency to 75hz and disabling vsync/triple buffer.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#239431 - 11/20/10 08:37 PM
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Should be easy enough to find.
http://mamedev.org/oldrel.html
Snag the older versions and see which one it happened in. If you pull out a 136 and it runs fast. Then do the same with a newer version and it runs slow it is not your computer. If you pull out a 136 and it runs slow something changed on your computer... Either way you can find out which version it happened in.
That should break the problem away from 'is it my computer or mame itself'. Which should help everyone diagnose what is going on.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: Lando242]
#239494 - 11/22/10 02:15 PM
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> Stupid question, but, are you running a clean install? I've found that installing
> MAME over old versions does wonky things. Only move over/save the required stuff like
> ROMs and such, everything else (like .cfg files) need to go.
>
> Lando242
I have a similar machine as ahofle, and have not experienced this sort of issue. My desktop doesn't go above 1024x768, though.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: lharms]
#239505 - 11/22/10 06:17 PM
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> Should be easy enough to find.
>
> http://mamedev.org/oldrel.html
>
> Snag the older versions and see which one it happened in. If you pull out a 136 and
> it runs fast. Then do the same with a newer version and it runs slow it is not your
> computer. If you pull out a 136 and it runs slow something changed on your
> computer... Either way you can find out which version it happened in.
>
> That should break the problem away from 'is it my computer or mame itself'. Which
> should help everyone diagnose what is going on.
Agreed. And if there's a version that's fast versus one that's slow, we can help break it into individual U-releases.
- Stiletto
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: Stiletto]
#239516 - 11/22/10 08:24 PM
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> > Should be easy enough to find.
> >
> > http://mamedev.org/oldrel.html
> >
> > Snag the older versions and see which one it happened in. If you pull out a 136 and
> > it runs fast. Then do the same with a newer version and it runs slow it is not your
> > computer. If you pull out a 136 and it runs slow something changed on your
> > computer... Either way you can find out which version it happened in.
> >
> > That should break the problem away from 'is it my computer or mame itself'. Which
> > should help everyone diagnose what is going on.
>
> Agreed. And if there's a version that's fast versus one that's slow, we can help
> break it into individual U-releases.
>
> - Stiletto
I'm on it...will report back my findings. Thanks.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: Stiletto]
#240137 - 12/02/10 06:36 AM
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> > Should be easy enough to find.
> >
> > http://mamedev.org/oldrel.html
> >
> > Snag the older versions and see which one it happened in. If you pull out a 136 and
> > it runs fast. Then do the same with a newer version and it runs slow it is not your
> > computer. If you pull out a 136 and it runs slow something changed on your
> > computer... Either way you can find out which version it happened in.
> >
> > That should break the problem away from 'is it my computer or mame itself'. Which
> > should help everyone diagnose what is going on.
>
> Agreed. And if there's a version that's fast versus one that's slow, we can help
> break it into individual U-releases.
OK it's definitely something between 0.136 and 0.137. I downloaded both versions and extracted into new directories and 0.137 consistently tops out at 75% and 0.136 goes around 800%. I can go back and forth between versions with the same results. Any idea how to break this down into u releases?
-------------------------------------------------
E:\m136>mame spectar
Average speed: 734.62% (44 seconds)
E:\m136>cd ..\m137
E:\m137>mame spectar
Average speed: 75.37% (10 seconds)
E:\m137>cd ..\m136
E:\m136>mame spectar
Average speed: 819.94% (46 seconds)
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| casm |
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#240149 - 12/02/10 08:02 AM
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> OK it's definitely something between 0.136 and 0.137. I downloaded both versions and
> extracted into new directories and 0.137 consistently tops out at 75% and 0.136 goes
> around 800%. I can go back and forth between versions with the same results. Any idea
> how to break this down into u releases?
Just a thought before you go looking at u releases: are you sure that the same options are set in the mame.ini used by both version 0.136 and 0.137 - or that they're both trying to load the same known-good mame.ini?
There have been times where I've lost track of which mame.ini I'm using when working with multiple versions, and have seen performance issues as a result.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#240150 - 12/02/10 08:02 AM
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: casm]
#240554 - 12/06/10 10:38 PM
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> Just a thought before you go looking at u releases: are you sure that the same
> options are set in the mame.ini used by both version 0.136 and 0.137 - or that
> they're both trying to load the same known-good mame.ini?
>
> There have been times where I've lost track of which mame.ini I'm using when working
> with multiple versions, and have seen performance issues as a result.
Well, this is using a fresh 'install' of MAME into two new separate directories, so they are both using the exact same 'defaults'.
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Re: MAME running slow since 0.137
[Re: ahofle]
#240709 - 12/08/10 10:09 PM
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> Well, this is using a fresh 'install' of MAME into two new separate directories, so
> they are both using the exact same 'defaults'.
Looks like yer hosed, man. Try re-installing the OS.
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