| Sune |
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I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
#234862 - 09/28/10 04:13 AM
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| DMala |
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Sleep is overrated
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: Sune]
#234863 - 09/28/10 04:30 AM
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To me, militant atheists are just as bad as religious fundamentalists. Dogma is the problem, not a belief or lack of belief in God. I've never understood the need to be part of a group that looks down on everyone else, while at the same time doing your best to recruit them to your cause.
Why not just believe what you want and leave everyone else alone to do the same?
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| Sune |
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DMala]
#234864 - 09/28/10 04:33 AM
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> To me, militant atheists are just as bad as religious fundamentalists. Dogma is the
> problem, not a belief or lack of belief in God. I've never understood the need to be
> part of a group that looks down on everyone else, while at the same time doing your
> best to recruit them to your cause.
>
> Why not just believe what you want and leave everyone else alone to do the same?
I don't disagree, however I believe that questioning authority is healthy and plays an important role in moving forward in life, maturing as a person etc etc bla bla.
I never heard about that crazy and interesting woman until today.
S
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| Hizzout |
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70's baby, early 80's child
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DMala]
#234867 - 09/28/10 05:25 AM
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Quote:
To me, militant atheists are just as bad as religious fundamentalists. Dogma is the problem, not a belief or lack of belief in God.
Damn straight. I was raised religious as well as my wife but we've both abandoned our religions, or I guess I should say religion as a whole.
The one thing believers and non-believers have in common is no one, absolutely NO ONE knows what happens after we die, and you can read as many books, study as many cases, take in as many first hand accounts as you want to and you're still left with one giant question mark.
From the time the homosapien could first contemplate life, in a sense become "self-aware" we've struggled to find purpose for our existence and whether it be Thor, Apollo, Aakuluujjusi, Yahweh, Xenu, Jesus, Manson, Koresh, Asahara or ELVIS there has been, and always will be those who find someone or something that explains the purpose of life.
I agree with many athiest points of view but I have a hard time latching on to "militant" or abrasive athiests. Dawkins is one of these...I really do agree with a lot he has to say but his cadence and delivery really turn me off. IMO Hitchens makes much more sense and his arguments are superb but he still comes across as condescending a lot of the time. However if you can find the "Collision of Lives" video with Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilsonm it's a good watch. It used to be on StageVu but for whatever reason it's not working on their site anymore.
I am however very moved by the remarks of Stephen Fry (one of many examples) where he can eloquently explain his views without really trampling on those who are religious.
What it comes down to is this....(and this may sound a little "hippy-ish") We are all floating on this dust speck together. We have no idea how we came to be, why we are here, what we're supposed to be doing, or where we're going but we all have our own theories. We should be openly discussing our theories as adults and open to HEALTHY debate while still being able to have free thought on the matter. We should all be able to understand that no one is right, no one is wrong because in reality we simply don't know. All religious texts, and athiestic texts are written by HUMANS. Humans that can only speculate, wish, dream, and theorize. Argue if you want....but if I were to approach anyone on the street and told me that God told me something I'd be looked at as crazy. Why should it be different for anyone else; Pope, prophet, president or pauper?
Trying to prove otherwise is fruitless. Faith vs. proof? I'll just try to be a good person and hope that others are trying to be the same.
Edited by Hizzout (09/28/10 06:48 AM)
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| Hizzout |
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70's baby, early 80's child
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: Sune]
#234870 - 09/28/10 05:30 AM
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Quote:
I never heard about that crazy and interesting woman until today
Must be an american thing I guess. I remember my parents being absolutely livid whenever she was on TV.
I guess by today's standards Dawkins or Hitchens fills her spot as we can see by the "What Would Jesus Do?" example of praying for Christopher Hitchens's death
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: Hizzout]
#234879 - 09/28/10 06:29 AM
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> I never heard about that crazy and interesting woman until today
>
> Must be an american thing I guess. I remember my parents being absolutely livid
> whenever she was on TV.
>
> I guess buy today's standards Dawkins or Hitchens fills her spot as we can see by the
> "What Would Jesus Do?" example of praying for Christopher Hitchens's death
I didn't hear about her till a Discovery Channel program relating its disappearance. I didn't reach the end of the program to find out if the whole family was kidnapped and murdered or they just ran away.
Who would have though obliging children to read The Bible at school* in the past (60's?) unchained what that woman become for a country?
*Not in the literary and academic way as "Iliad and Odyssey" or "The Lord of the Rings".
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: Sune]
#234891 - 09/28/10 02:16 PM
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She's dead Jim.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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| DR |
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Skeptical Linkbot
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DMala]
#234898 - 09/28/10 03:27 PM
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> To me, militant atheists are just as bad as religious fundamentalists. Dogma is the
> problem, not a belief or lack of belief in God. I've never understood the need to be
> part of a group that looks down on everyone else, while at the same time doing your
> best to recruit them to your cause.
>
> Why not just believe what you want and leave everyone else alone to do the same?
I never used to be very vocal as an atheist then I thought wait a minute nobody bats an eyelid when people refer to God, Creation and all the other rubbish that goes with religion. Atheists get branded as militant when they are no more vocal than your average church goer. Its true that the likes of Dawkins are more militant but only because they are passionate about the damage religion does.
There are things in the bible that are absolutely wrong and we can prove it, so myself and other atheists think it is wrong to teach children (and gullible adults) the bible is factual.
The fact is your average church goer does not simply believe what they believe and leave everyone else alone they place religious labels on their children before they have any choice in the matter. That is very, very wrong and something I find very disturbing. The only reason religion persists because believers don't let everyone else believe what they want and leave them alone.
How many believers were born into atheist families who allowed their children to learn about all of the religions in the world along with the sciences and allowed them to make the choice in what they believe? I don't know the answer either but I'm betting its not many.
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DR]
#234908 - 09/28/10 05:05 PM
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Well Ms O'Hair definitely didn't want to give her children a choice. On her son's conversion to Christianity: "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times...he is beyond human forgiveness." Christians still love their children, whatever religious choices they make.
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| DR |
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Skeptical Linkbot
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#234912 - 09/28/10 05:17 PM
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> Well Ms O'Hair definitely didn't want to give her children a choice. On her son's
> conversion to Christianity: "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of
> a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times...he
> is beyond human forgiveness."
Anyone who makes a statement about their child like that deserves nothing but contempt and I dont give shit what they believe.
Christians still love their children, whatever
> religious choices they make.
Thats a sweeping statement which I'm sure you know is not true for every Christian. I could point you in the direction of my devoutly Catholic father in law for instance. And Ms O'Hair dosent speak for all Atheists unlike your God. We make up our own minds.
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DR]
#234915 - 09/28/10 05:35 PM
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> And Ms O'Hair dosent speak for all Atheists unlike your God. We make up our own
> minds.
And Rick Warren doesn't speak for all Christians. Most of us make up our own minds as well.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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| DR |
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Skeptical Linkbot
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: igamabob]
#234922 - 09/28/10 06:42 PM
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> > And Ms O'Hair dosent speak for all Atheists unlike your God. We make up our own
> > minds.
>
> And Rick Warren doesn't speak for all Christians. Most of us make up our own minds as
> well.
So you weren't raised as a Christian? You made youre own mind up about it?
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DR]
#234943 - 09/28/10 09:26 PM
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I was raised in a Christian household, however, it was my choice to join a church or not to. Not all people of faith are Evangelical nutballs.
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Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
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Re: I know we never discuss religion in the bin but...
[Re: DR]
#234954 - 09/29/10 01:12 AM
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> And Ms O'Hair dosent speak for all Atheists unlike your God.
But does Ron Jeremy speak for all porn stars?
“But look at Gene Simmons: He’s a rock star, he gets girls that look like his beautiful Playboy Playmate Shannon Tweed, his gorgeous girlfriend. When I’m not making movies, I get girls who look like Gene Simmons.”
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